ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[NewWorldOrder]

On 1/17/2024 at 5:58 AM, GDN said:

ASM 300 in 9.6 sold for the lowest it has since ~July 2020.  $750.

Heritage is not a great place to sell common post 1980 books. 

Same book on eBay would sell higher at .99c auction 7-day auction, which 2 did just a couple days prior.

BTW the fact a CGC 9.6 is still commanding  as of Jan 2024 those prices just shows us how popular Venom and McFarlane are.

The book is so common even at CGC 9.6 a ASM #300 going for $500 is still high.

Edited January 17 by NewWorldOrder

[DC#]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:26 AM, BrashL said:

It's been confirmed that anything they received for reholdering had to be still sealed or it would trigger a re-grade. If they were reholdering open cases that would be much, much worse. 

I'll let you know how it goes in a few days.   I sent in an ASM 300 9.8 in a 2nd Gen slab for a re-holder about a week before this news broke.    Currently in Grading/QC.   No damage to the slab - it is just my OCD can't take having the different generations of slabs (and colors are more vivid with 3rd gen holders in my opinion even with newton rings).   

I use re-holder service more than grading these days as I convert newly acquired 2nd gen slabs or re-holder 3rd gen slabs to get rid a custom labels (not a fan) - so I am interested in how this process will work.    

[silent06]

On 1/17/2024 at 8:01 AM, wiparker824 said:

But it does seem like they might have changed their plan which was:

“As impacted books are returned, the certification number will be struck through, indicating it is no longer valid and the book has been given a new certification number. Certification numbers that are no longer valid will not be searchable in the Verify CGC Certification database”

It does appear something has changed in their plan. This book which is struck through and has a new grade date is available on Heritage for sale. If the book has been cleared based on what CGC originally outlined it should have a new certification number and if not cleared should be in their hands as evidence based on the comments Matt Nelson provided in the recent discussion with West Davengers and 9.9 Newsstand.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/the-amazing-spider-man-300-marvel-1988-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/i/800110856.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 

[360flip]

On 1/17/2024 at 9:34 AM, silent06 said:

It does appear something has changed in their plan. This book which is struck through and has a new grade date is available on Heritage for sale. If the book has been cleared based on what CGC originally outlined it should have a new certification number and if not cleared should be in their hands as evidence based on the comments Matt Nelson provided in the recent discussion with West Davengers and 9.9 Newsstand.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/the-amazing-spider-man-300-marvel-1988-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/i/800110856.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 

yeah. That isn't following what their protocol is. That book should have a new cert. Also would have expected that book to have an image.

Edited January 17 by 360flip

[wiparker824]

On 1/17/2024 at 10:34 AM, silent06 said:

It does appear something has changed in their plan. This book which is struck through and has a new grade date is available on Heritage for sale. If the book has been cleared based on what CGC originally outlined it should have a new certification number and if not cleared should be in their hands as evidence based on the comments Matt Nelson provided in the recent discussion with West Davengers and 9.9 Newsstand.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/the-amazing-spider-man-300-marvel-1988-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/i/800110856.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 

Good find. Yeah that’s in line with what I thought was happening when I looked at all of the 20+ books that have been crossed off this morning. None have new cert numbers, all are now searchable in the verify, only 3 still have old graded dates, the rest were given new dates.

[wiparker824]

 

also weird for it to still say this at the top. Got to say if I was trying to sell this book on HA who provides a link in the description to this CGC cert verification it wouldn’t feel great that my perspective buyers are being told to report it as fraud if they are offered the book. Yes I’m aware it’s been crossed off the list but not every buyer is aware of that. They just click on this link and see that and are probably going to look for another book.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/17/2024 at 11:58 AM, wiparker824 said:

 

also weird for it to still say this at the top. Got to say if I was trying to sell this book on HA who provides a link in the description to this CGC cert verification it wouldn’t feel great that my perspective buyers are being told to report it as fraud if they are offered the book. Yes I’m aware it’s been crossed off the list but not every buyer is aware of that. They just click on this link and see that and are probably going to look for another book.

All it made me think of was "it is up to the consignor to ok sending back to CGC?"

Idk but maybe some aren't willing?

Lol meaning the owner selling on heritage, idk perhaps they aren't in a forced position and or need $$ quicker than waiting on cgc or the next possible auction

Idk

Edited January 17 by ADAMANTIUM

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 1/17/2024 at 9:34 AM, silent06 said:

It does appear something has changed in their plan. This book which is struck through and has a new grade date is available on Heritage for sale. If the book has been cleared based on what CGC originally outlined it should have a new certification number and if not cleared should be in their hands as evidence based on the comments Matt Nelson provided in the recent discussion with West Davengers and 9.9 Newsstand.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/the-amazing-spider-man-300-marvel-1988-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/i/800110856.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 

If the book was never tampered with, why justify a need to reholder with a new cert #?

[wiparker824]

On 1/17/2024 at 11:03 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

All it made me think of was "it is up to the consignor to ok sending back to CGC?"

Idk but maybe some aren't willing?

Lol meaning the owner selling on heritage, idk perhaps they aren't in a forced position and or need $$ quicker than waiting on cgc or the next possible auction

Idk

Yeah that seems like the best guess, CGC can’t force anyone to send it back but they can still clear it if they have scans before and after the reholder I guess? This is what I thought was going on when some books crossed off weren’t in the verify tool while others were. Seemed like some books weren’t popping up because they were given new certs after being sent in and others were not sent in but still verified as not fraudulent so they remained under the old cert in the verify tool. But now all crossed off books come up in verify. So I don’t know anymore.. I guess we will have to wait for those that posted they sent in books to tell us if they got new cert numbers or not.

[silent06]

On 1/17/2024 at 12:13 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

If the book was never tampered with, why justify a need to reholder with a new cert #?

I am just getting back in to collecting and only been back in the hobby about 6 months. However, personally, I wouldn't and don't want any books that were in the hands of the individual executing this fraud. There are actually a couple of books on ComicLink, while not the list, that are from his submissions and it has that fact alone has deterred me from entertaining bidding on them as we still don't fully know all the facets of his nefarious and fraudulent activities. 

Edited January 17 by silent06

[sledgehammer]

On 1/17/2024 at 11:49 AM, 360flip said:

yeah. That isn't following what their protocol is. That book should have a new cert. Also would have expected that book to have an image.

It sounds like the same thing that Comiclink reported about that he said that he looked at scans, and determined no swap had happened, and Avengers 57 was cleared.

Maybe heritage got the same clearance based on sales history and looking at scans.

Edited January 17 by sledgehammer

[360flip]

On 1/17/2024 at 10:38 AM, sledgehammer said:

It sounds like the same thing that Comiclink reported about that he said that he looked at scans, and determined no swap had happened, and Avengers 57 was cleared.

Maybe heritage got the same clearance based on sales history and looking at scans.

CGC should at least make that clear in their holder review FAQ. Anything that was verified good by auction house gets cert A (same as original cert), those that are mailed in and verified good get cert B, new cert?

[topcat54]

On 1/17/2024 at 12:58 PM, wiparker824 said:

 

also weird for it to still say this at the top. Got to say if I was trying to sell this book on HA who provides a link in the description to this CGC cert verification it wouldn’t feel great that my perspective buyers are being told to report it as fraud if they are offered the book. Yes I’m aware it’s been crossed off the list but not every buyer is aware of that. They just click on this link and see that and are probably going to look for another book.

@CGC MikeMike is talking to the team about this problem

[CGC Mike]

CGC does indeed have possession of this book (hence the strikethrough), and Heritage has removed the listing.

[CGC Mike]

On 1/17/2024 at 2:10 PM, topcat54 said:

@CGC MikeMike is talking to the team about this problem

Thanks again for the heads up.

[topcat54]

it was these guys that brought it up I just pm'd you 

[Panda2]

The fact that they are not opening the slabs to verify everything is kosher, plus not issuing new cert numbers is a little questionable and concerning to me - I would think that anyone holding one of the books and trying to sell it to a knowledgeable audience would face some pushback - as there really is no guarantee it hasn't been tampered with - and will always be tainted to some degree.  @CGC Mike As somone who is sending one of "the list" books back to CGC, I would want the assurances that they have actually looked at the physical book, and would like the original cert number disassociated with my book.

As long as the list of suspect books is out there and available to people, I can imagine anyone looking to buya copy of the book in question will simply opt for a book that wasn't on the list just for peace of mind reasons - especially if it appears that there is not a lot of actual diligence in the recheck process. 

 

[Chip Cataldo]

There are so many other copies of these issues out there, why would anyone bother with any of them...ever?

Edited January 17 by Chip Cataldo

[Motor City Rob]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:32 PM, COMICLINK said:

 

5) Lastly, and this is the most time consuming, we will be finding all of our buyers that have ever purchased one of these cert numbers and we will reach out to them proactively to alert them to this situation pertaining to their book(s).   

We will get through this together

-Josh

@COMICLINK Is there still a plan to reach out to your customers? I've been slow to go through the list, but so far I've found two books from the list that I purchased from Comic Link. Continuing to compare our inventory against the list, but would be good to confirm with you guys that I didn't miss anything. 

[Panda2]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:16 PM, Motor City Rob said:

@COMICLINK Is there still a plan to reach out to your customers? I've been slow to go through the list, but so far I've found two books from the list that I purchased from Comic Link. Continuing to compare our inventory against the list, but would be good to confirm with you guys that I didn't miss anything. 

I haven't heard anything from them either - they were the source of my book as well