ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 3/5/2024 at 8:49 PM, WernerVonDoom said:

FYI CGC still has no idea when they are going to refund the people on the 350 list.  It would seem like they would want to process them promptly to avoid headaches (i.e. market changes), but I guess not.

This is absolutely unacceptable. 

At this point I am rooting for anyone who just has enough and hope they sue the chit out of CGC for the new levels  of incompetence they have been showing they are capable of as of late.  Also hope they win a HUGE judgment.

  CGC obviously needs to learn that what they have been doing and how they have been treating their customers is 

[BrashL]

On 3/5/2024 at 6:50 PM, LudaToke said:

Is that actually going to happen though?  I haven't seen CGC mention anything about that actually happening regardless of how long it will take

At some point. They just rolled out pulp cases so presumably they have a warehouse full of this old design in all the sizes. I'm not a dealer so I can wait until whenever or use somebody else in the meantime. The main takeaway from this entire debacle is I have no desire to have anything slabbed in the current product ever again. 

[William-James88]

On 3/5/2024 at 5:34 PM, BrashL said:

Still waiting for the new cases too huh?

I dont see why that would happen as none of the evidence and facts point to tampering in the end. From all I am reading, this is said to be an inside job. 
the current slabs are still tamper proof, you cant replace a book in a slab without any sign of tampering/damage 

[CJ Design]

A frequent submitter said and showed the cases he's recently gotten back are studier and sealed on all sides...more greyish thank Blue.

Edited March 6 by CJ Design

[Ccccccccccccc]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:16 AM, William-James88 said:

I dont see why that would happen as none of the evidence and facts point to tampering in the end. From all I am reading, this is said to be an inside job. 
the current slabs are still tamper proof, you cant replace a book in a slab without any sign of tampering/damage 

Stunningly incorrect.

[William-James88]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:08 PM, Ccccccccccccc said:

Stunningly incorrect.

Then please correct me, what evidence do we have that these cases are not tamper proof and that we need a new case? Please link any video showing someone able to fully replace a comic in the slabs with a result showing that the slab looks the same as before 

[BrashL]

On 3/6/2024 at 2:12 PM, William-James88 said:

Then please correct me, what evidence do we have that these cases are not tamper proof and that we need a new case? Please link any video showing someone able to fully replace a comic in the slabs with a result showing that the slab looks the same as before 

LOL. Man you're like 200 pages late, ain't nobody got any time for that anymore

[shadroch]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:12 PM, William-James88 said:

Then please correct me, what evidence do we have that these cases are not tamper proof and that we need a new case? Please link any video showing someone able to fully replace a comic in the slabs with a result showing that the slab looks the same as before 

Read CGCs court filing. It is addressed there. 

[drotto]

https://youtu.be/TTKiU5inXhA?si=jWCpLEMLeWCcPU3N

 

Some lawsuit updates.  Not great.

Edited March 6 by drotto

[shadroch]

Nothing to see here, just another in a very long string of coincidences. 

[mrd160]

I still don’t understand why someone impacted by this wouldn’t go after the person directly civilly and/or criminally. CGC it’s gonna look out for their best interest and the person with these tainted books needs to do the same. PLEASE DO NOT RELY ON ANY CORPORATION EVER TO LOOK OUT FOR THE LITTLE GUY….look out for your self. 

[paqart]

On 3/6/2024 at 4:47 PM, drotto said:

https://youtu.be/TTKiU5inXhA?si=jWCpLEMLeWCcPU3N

 

Some lawsuit updates.  Not great.

My wife experienced this in the probate case for her grandfather's estate. Her aunt had managed to come into possession of most of the estate's most valuable items (and cash), claimed to have been stolen by her grandfather just before he died. This resulted in a will contest. Fairly soon after it started, everything halted to give people time for settlement. It never happened. Her grandfather died in 2003. The case was resolved around 2021.

[drotto]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:27 PM, mrd160 said:

I still don’t understand why someone impacted by this wouldn’t go after the person directly civilly and/or criminally. CGC it’s gonna look out for their best interest and the person with these tainted books needs to do the same. PLEASE DO NOT RELY ON ANY CORPORATION EVER TO LOOK OUT FOR THE LITTLE GUY….look out for your self. 

For the time being CGC has bought itself time by promising to make people whole. Bringing a lawsuit at this time against CGC where they have not caused any damage yet (in theory, they are still legally victims here also till proven otherwise) would be difficult to win. Remember this is only like 3 months, a very small amount of time in legal settings. If time goes by and CGC could be precieved as breaking that promise, that case becomes much easier.

[mrd160]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:00 AM, drotto said:

For the time being CGC has bought itself time by promising to make people whole. Bringing a lawsuit at this time against CGC where they have not caused any damage yet (in theory, they are still legally victims here also till proven otherwise) would be difficult to win. Remember this is only like 3 months, a very small amount of time in legal settings. If time goes by and CGC could be precieved as breaking that promise, that case becomes much easier.

I wasn't talking about CGC, I was talking about the scammer him/her self

[drotto]

On 3/7/2024 at 10:42 AM, mrd160 said:

I wasn't talking about CGC, I was talking about the scammer him/her self

Without the backing of CGC or other grading expert, I am not sure how an individual would be able to prove tampering or that the comic had been manipulated. By maintaining the comic in the case, and these books having valid CGC numbers, the scammer has an arguable case that is was CGC that failed not them, because they will of course deny the tampering. So they will claim it is CGC's liability.

[brute_nm]

@CGC Mike

 

[grendel013]

For the record, my last pending submission with CGC has been shipped today. At this time I am taking a pause from submitting anything else. Not necessarily because of this issue, but because I don't feel like I have anything I want to submit right now. HOWEVER, I will note that the last few submissions I received AFTER this thing started came back really nice. I'm talking 4 submissions throughout February to today consisting of 26 comics and 2 magazines came back amazing. Cases were sharp and tight. Plus the high rez scans and tons of graders notes on everything below 9.4. That's my sample size and contribution to the data pool.

[CGC Mike]

On 3/7/2024 at 5:06 PM, brute_nm said:

@CGC Mike

Has this been posted?

A strikethrough indicates that the book has been reviewed by CGC. If the book’s grade is determined to be correct, it is given a new certification number at no charge to the customer. If the book’s grade is determined to be incorrect, it is directed to our claims team for further processing.

 All books on this list were removed from the CGC Census. If they were checked, determined to have a correct grade and given a new certification number, then are then re-added to the CGC Census as normal after shipping.

 Any book that has been determined to have an incorrect grade is still at CGC with our claims team and therefore does not appear in the CGC Census. It is possible that some of the claims will be partly dispositioned by re-grading the book and returning it to the customer. If that happens, the book will be given a new certification number and re-added to the CGC Census as normal after shipping.

 

[ramithard]

Just received my order of 9 books....very satisfied with the order.....and not all were 9.8....three were 9.6 ....so that theory of them giving 9.8's out like candy is swallowed... but it does look like they have changed the plastic sleeve back to the thinner , clearer one....instead of the heavier cloudy one.....

[brute_nm]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:52 PM, CGC Mike said:

Has this been posted?

A strikethrough indicates that the book has been reviewed by CGC. If the book’s grade is determined to be correct, it is given a new certification number at no charge to the customer. If the book’s grade is determined to be incorrect, it is directed to our claims team for further processing.

 All books on this list were removed from the CGC Census. If they were checked, determined to have a correct grade and given a new certification number, then are then re-added to the CGC Census as normal after shipping.

 Any book that has been determined to have an incorrect grade is still at CGC with our claims team and therefore does not appear in the CGC Census. It is possible that some of the claims will be partly dispositioned by re-grading the book and returning it to the customer. If that happens, the book will be given a new certification number and re-added to the CGC Census as normal after shipping.

 

Thanks, this does help some, though I'm still quite confused by some of the things I'm seeing on the list and in the census.

I have condensed my confusion and previous posts into a few specific questions:

• There are multiple books with new grade dates without a strikethrough.  By my last count, there are 77 books with a new grade date (in 2024), yet only 63 strikethroughs.  If they were reviewed/regraded, they should have a strikethrough, according to your FAQ quoted above.
• There is 1 book without a new grade date with a strikethrough.  If it was reviewed/verified, shouldn't it have a new grade date (in 2024)?  Cert# 0233579004
• What does it mean when a book has been regraded in 2024 but the grade is vacated?
• What does it mean when a book has been regraded in 2024 but maintains its former grade?
• If a book has been regraded in 2024 and maintains its former grade, I assume that means it was verified as legit.  If so, why do these books still have the "Contact reportfraud@collectiblesgroup.com if you own or are offered this book" message on their cert# page if they have been deemed legit?
• There are 2 books that are NOT on the CGC list that a) I believe to be fraudulent and b) have new grade dates in 2024.  One had its grade vacated, which I assume means it was deemed fraudulent.  Why aren't these two books on CGC's official list?  Why were they checked even though they aren't on the list?  CGC has made it clear that it will NOT review books that are NOT on the list, so why did these get a special treatment?  Cert#'s 1146675002 and 4329914003
• Can you please add a "last update" date to the list?  This would help immensely those of us tracking strikethroughs, new additions, etc.
• Can we get a simple list of all books that have been checked so far that shows which were deemed legit and which were deemed fraudulent?

Edited March 9 by brute_nm