Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 27 27

[electricprune]

On 9/20/2024 at 2:35 PM, Yorick said:

Yes.  Four (4) book submission by me nearly one year ago in October 2023.  Sent for PRESSING then grading.  These were nice books that needed a little encouragement to get higher grades.  Only the Spiderman came back with a warped well.  The other books still have spine ticks though (as if they were never pressed).

It is my book and I appreciate the sentiment.  Thank you.  THAT book is the singular reason I'm posting in this thread.  Despite my dissatisfaction with the other three in that same order.

Not a reholder.  First time the book was ever graded.  I bought it at a convention long before grading was ever a thing.  The only "manipulation" by me was adding a sticker outside the case over the CGC holo-logo.

I have one too. Fortunately it’s a nothing book for anyone but me. I won’t put it in my collection as a CGC 9.4, and there’s no way I would ever try to sell it as a 9.4 because it looks like 7.0 in hand.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

Ah. Appolgies @Yorick  Didn't think it would have been warped based on the cert# but there are outliers from prior to reholdergate. Something about pressed books when the well has any warp seems to be doing much more significant damage than books that weren't pressed as those faults / issues that were there prior come back in abundance. Even so, surprising that the well was warped prior to the re-holder scam realization and this issue became consistent with the inner wells. I suppose as some have posted it had been happening in random scenarios far longer but just not consistently so much. Seeing as it is a white cover hopefully those can be re-pressed and slabbed once this issue is resolved and books get back to lying flat in the inner wells.

Edited September 20 by AbsoluteCarnage

[Yorick]

On 9/20/2024 at 12:06 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

Ah. Appolgies @Yorick I missed the original post at the bottom of the last page. Something about pressed books when the well has any warp seems to be doing much more significant damage than books that weren't pressed as those faults / issues that were there prior come back in abundance. Even so, surprising that the well was warped prior to the re-holder scam realization and this issue became consistent with the inner wells. I suppose as some have posted it had been happening in random scenarios far longer but just not consistently so much. Seeing as it is a white cover hopefully those can be re-pressed and slabbed once this issue is resolved and books get back to lying flat in the inner wells.

The reholder scam had been happening before my book submission.  You bring up a good point about weak structural issues in the paper being exacerbated by the bent well.  It's been brought up before.  I do see some small ticks on the back cover of my Spiderman that could have been the origin of that horrible mangling seen on the white section lower-mid spine of the slabbed image.

Photos prior to submission:

[Calm-Mix]

X-Men #99 - The reverse banana

I had this slabbed back in June 2024. WHen it came back I noticed then that It did not look like it did after I pressed it and sent it out. I noticed the spine ticks and wavyness. This was before I knew about the warped inner wells.They had the label on this swapped with another comic in the order so I sent them both back as ME's.

I got them back with the correct comics labeled but not the custom labels. By this time I heard about the warped inner wells so I sent them back as ME's to fix the label and to look into the warped inner wells. They said it was too late to do anything but fix the labels because of the 15 day grace period. Even though I barely had it in my hands because it's been tied up in ME status.

It just came back today and it has the reverse banana. So all the damage that was created when the well bent the comic forward is still there and now its banana is bending the other way creating new weird bending of the comic.

Im pretty sure they did not change the inner well for this one but it somehow got worse.

Link to video: The Reverse Banana 

 

[spidermanbeyond]

Reverse banana:

CGC Consumer Service: What are we going to do about the Banana Bends?

CGC Heads:  Let's reverse the inner wells so now the bends on the back cover instead of the front cover and less visible.

CCG Board:  Brilliant!  Won't cost a thing! and these dummy customers have no choice but keep submitting anyway because we are #1 and the best.

Edited September 20 by spidermanbeyond

[Tnexus]

It is interesting the banana bends are pretty much all one direction. You'd think you'd see both.

[miraclemet]

So I emailed Customer Service about my arched inner well book that were delivered on Friday. Their answer was perplexing. 

 

"We do not consider this slight curve to be a mechanical error that requires reholdering. Still, we are always listening and want to serve our customers the best way we can. We have found that our next-largest well size does not exhibit this slight curve and have started to use that well in lieu of our smallest size."

 

If it's not considered an issue/problem why have they solved it by using the next larger size well?  And if they have a solution, why aren't they using it instead of continuing to put books in the bent wells? They claim no damage is possible, but they don't know what will occur over time, since it's a new issue.

 

I think it's funny that CGC has in house pressing  AND in house bending now.

[VinceVellCUSTOMS]

How long does it take to get any response from sending back in books with the banana damages? They got mine back in like 3 weeks ago and just sitting at ready to be graded .

 

[Yorick]

I cracked a recently graded Golden Age comic and found that there was a bowl in the center of its inner-well too. 

I didn't see it while it was sealed....

About the size of a doughnut.  Very strange.

[MadGenius]

On 9/21/2024 at 11:38 AM, miraclemet said:

So I emailed Customer Service about my arched inner well book that were delivered on Friday. Their answer was perplexing. 

 

"We do not consider this slight curve to be a mechanical error that requires reholdering. Still, we are always listening and want to serve our customers the best way we can. We have found that our next-largest well size does not exhibit this slight curve and have started to use that well in lieu of our smallest size."

 

If it's not considered an issue/problem why have they solved it by using the next larger size well?  And if they have a solution, why aren't they using it instead of continuing to put books in the bent wells? They claim no damage is possible, but they don't know what will occur over time, since it's a new issue.

 

I think it's funny that CGC has in house pressing  AND in house bending now.

So they are saying "we found a solution," but also are admitting they aren't actively employing said solution after issuing a statement saying they would be. Got it.

CGC customer service is useless with these issues. @CGC Mike Can you confirm the "next-largest" well sizes are being used universally at this point, or are we going to play Russian roulette with our books until the supply of compromised inner wells is exhausted?

Edited September 21 by MadGenius

[wombat]

It wouldn't be shocking if they were using up the bad inner wells. Its just a numbers game. I'm assuming dealing with complaints (or not dealing with them as the case may be)is far cheaper than throwing out a lot of stock. 

[electricprune]

On 9/21/2024 at 5:36 PM, wombat said:

It wouldn't be shocking if they were using up the bad inner wells. Its just a numbers game. I'm assuming dealing with complaints (or not dealing with them as the case may be)is far cheaper than throwing out a lot of stock. 

This hasn’t been discussed enough, in my opinion. On page 1 of this thread, CGC admitted the had warped inner wells. They said that Lord Rahl’s slabs had them. They also said they were removed from production.

Then, slabs with what appears to be the exact same warped inner wells continue to be delivered to submitters. Is this just the worst coincidence possible for CGC, or is it something else?

My money is on something else.

 

 

[wombat]

 

[CGC Mike]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:22 PM, MadGenius said:

CGC customer service is useless with these issues. @CGC Mike Can you confirm the "next-largest" well sizes are being used universally at this point, or are we going to play Russian roulette with our books until the supply of compromised inner wells is exhausted?

I can ask.  If I am given something to post, I will do so.  

[Dr. Love]

On 9/21/2024 at 11:17 AM, Yorick said:

I cracked a recently graded Golden Age comic and found that there was a bowl in the center of its inner-well too. 

I didn't see it while it was sealed....

About the size of a doughnut.  Very strange.

That's been present randomly for many many years now.

[RC64Buck_Comics]

Have a question for anyone who has contacted CGC Customer Support about this issue. I know their stance is to either claim that the bent inner wells don't cause damage, or that the damage you're complaining about is acceptable for that grade. But, how do they respond when you show spine ticks on your book that are clearly not present in the grading scans? Not sure I've seen anyone touch on that point yet, and that seems a lot harder to deny.

Edited September 22 by RC64Buck_Comics

[Tnexus]

On 9/22/2024 at 4:00 PM, RC64Buck_Comics said:

Have a question for anyone who has contacted CGC Customer Support about this issue. I know their stance is to either claim that the bent inner wells don't cause damage, or that the damage you're complaining about is acceptable for that grade. But, how do they respond when you show spine ticks on your book that are clearly not present in the grading scans? Not sure I've seen anyone touch on that point yet, and that seems a lot harder to deny.

I think at best they'll say send them in and you might get a press and regrade out of them. Getting compensation out of them is pretty much impossible since we all know they won't admit fault.

[CGC Mike]

On 9/21/2024 at 3:22 PM, MadGenius said:

@CGC Mike Can you confirm the "next-largest" well sizes are being used universally at this point, or are we going to play Russian roulette with our books until the supply of compromised inner wells is exhausted?

Hi

We immediately stopped using the well in question weeks ago. No more of those will be used. 

Mike

[Tnexus]

On 9/22/2024 at 4:34 PM, CGC Mike said:

Hi

We immediately stopped using the well in question weeks ago. No more of those will be used. 

Mike

Any chance you can get an approximate slab number or date when they stopped?

[CGC Mike]

On 9/22/2024 at 7:37 PM, Tnexus said:

Any chance you can get an approximate slab number or date when they stopped?

It would be sometime prior to my statement regarding using the larger inner wells.