my last, last i tell you, attempted transaction with metropolis

[Ogami]

Sometimes I think guys in the comic biz are penny wise and pound foolish. Particularly cuz I might have dropped some of that money at Neatstuff's table anyway, as I am sometimes prone to do.

 

dittoed for truth.

[MrBedrock]

I seem to recall tha Metropolis was selling a very high grade run of raw Batman's about 6 months ago (Do I remember correctly?). Was The Bat 5 one of the books frm the run? If there is any linkage I wonder how the other books graded?

 

I bought these at the first LA Wizard show (4 years ago?). The Batman 4 was indeed a vfnm. I have posted it here before. To the best of my recollection, the Sub-Mariner 16 graded an 8.0 after pressing. It was sold through a 2005 Heritage auction after my divorce.

[MrBedrock]

I find it noteworthy that

 

A) Metropolis has not responded to Bedrock's last post about his two apparently undisclosed restored books,

 

and

 

B) the inference I see that Richard has already mentioned this to Metropolis, not to his satisfaction.

 

My post was the first Metro heard of it. Rather than get into the multitude of reasons why and continue this on the boards, I am waiting for some phone calls to be made, some loud frank discussion, and then getting back to bidness as usual.

 

then may I be the first to say,

 

"bad form, Richard".

 

(but I love Bedrock. Had a great time in your stores, all four of them, about three years ago on a trip to Texas)

 

I appreciate the kind words. But before you give me a "bad form" understand that sometimes it is better to eat your mistakes then deall with the ramifications of trying to return them. There are many instances where particular dealers take it as an afront to their abilities when presented with a mis-graded or missed resto book. I would never have brought it up if Metro had not paraded out all my past dealings as an example of their generosity as golden-age comic dealers, and my ungratefulness as a customer.

[pennynike1]

I appreciate the kind words. But before you give me a "bad form" understand that sometimes it is better to eat your mistakes then deall with the ramifications of trying to return them. There are many instances where particular dealers take it as an afront to their abilities when presented with a mis-graded or missed resto book. I would never have brought it up if Metro had not paraded out all my past dealings as an example of their generosity as golden-age comic dealers, and my ungratefulness as a customer.

 

If the "discounts" they indicated giving can really be termed genorosity. Discounting books that are being soldfor more than cost still leads to profit.

[jkrk]

 

I appreciate the kind words. But before you give me a "bad form" understand that sometimes it is better to eat your mistakes then deall with the ramifications of trying to return them. There are many instances where particular dealers take it as an afront to their abilities when presented with a mis-graded or missed resto book. I would never have brought it up if Metro had not paraded out all my past dealings as an example of their generosity as golden-age comic dealers, and my ungratefulness as a customer.

 

 

It's novel for me to view the situation through your eyes. As a "pro" in the comic world it sounds as if you are disappointed in yourself for not catching the restorartion (for whatever reason) on the raw books.

 

I have always viewed the world through an amateuers eyes. .I could spend the time in become relatively proficient at detecting restoration, etc. on raw books. However, if the time is spent taking me away from my business the education will

become very, very costly. In the end I have made the judgement to trust third parties when purchasing books. I use threads such as this one to help me to understand the character of the seller. If I am buying a raw book at a "steep price" am I also facing a restoration risk? I don't look at any one post to judge a seller but a cumulation of posters thoughts plus my own experiences in order to form an opinion. These posts continue to keep me focused on CGC graded books as my primary source. I guess I will continue to miss the primo raw books many on this site post (congrats to the buyers) but unless I find sellers who back their books with sufficient return policies (time) it will be my loss.

 

Thanks for all the posts in this thread as they continue to help my eduaction.

[tth2]

in agreement with everything but the 'evil empire' blast--excellent post. [see, no personal shot].

 

I'm fairly certain that the Evil Empire notation was made tongue firmly in cheek since if Heritage was an Evil Empire as mentioned many times on here, why would they continue to offer the extensive auctions archives they do. Tim was in fact mocking those that think Heritage is Evil. This makes you guys 100% in agreement

Before I apparently became known as a Metro apologist, I was first and foremost known on these Boards as a Heritage apologist.

 

And a CGC apologist.

At this point, I may as well just open an office on K Street in Washington DC and buy myself some Gucci loafers.

[Sal]

 

I appreciate the kind words. But before you give me a "bad form" understand that sometimes it is better to eat your mistakes then deall with the ramifications of trying to return them. There are many instances where particular dealers take it as an afront to their abilities when presented with a mis-graded or missed resto book. I would never have brought it up if Metro had not paraded out all my past dealings as an example of their generosity as golden-age comic dealers, and my ungratefulness as a customer.

 

 

It's novel for me to view the situation through your eyes. As a "pro" in the comic world it sounds as if you are disappointed in yourself for not catching the restorartion (for whatever reason) on the raw books.

 

all due respect, but i don't think Bedrock is disappointed in himself here.

 

when buying any book, one enters into a position of trust with the seller, in varying degrees. this is the very core of the CGC model. the restoration detection, and to a lesser extent the grade, affords a certain level of trust for the purchaser. it levels the playing field somewhat. if you're buying a raw book from a reputable source, your trust level is presumably higher than buying from some schmoe on eBay. thus, when a deal through said reputable source doesn't turn out in such a way as to justify that trust, well, i imagine it's a long way down indeed.

 

forgive me for speaking out of turn here. i'm just offering my 2 cents on a matter i have no vested interest in, having neither bought nor sold from any of the parties involved in this thread

[sacentaur]

Not out of turn at all Sal, and well said - trust is very important for collector confidence.

 

Though it does seem to me that the larger the inventory, the less important trust becomes.

 

STEVE

[esquirecomics]

in agreement with everything but the 'evil empire' blast--excellent post. [see, no personal shot].

 

I'm fairly certain that the Evil Empire notation was made tongue firmly in cheek since if Heritage was an Evil Empire as mentioned many times on here, why would they continue to offer the extensive auctions archives they do. Tim was in fact mocking those that think Heritage is Evil. This makes you guys 100% in agreement

Before I apparently became known as a Metro apologist, I was first and foremost known on these Boards as a Heritage apologist.

 

And a CGC apologist.

At this point, I may as well just open an office on K Street in Washington DC and buy myself some Gucci loafers.

 

I had an office at 1275 K Street for about 3 years, but never had Gucci loafers.

[Sal]

Not out of turn at all Sal, and well said - trust is very important for collector confidence.

 

Though it does seem to me that the larger the inventory, the less important trust becomes.

 

STEVE

 

thanks, Steve.

 

in the same vein, i think trust also plays a part when books are sold. quite a few dealers - not thinking of anyone in particular here - are perhaps overly concerned with "leaving money on the table" when they sell certain books. this mindset tends to cloud the issue, imo. selling a book below going market rate - or at a discount, if you prefer - resulting in the buyer then turning around and reselling probably brings a level of discomfort to some.

 

the hardest nut to crack then, from this type of seller's standpoint, would be determining the level of trust they have that the buyer is keeping the book, rather than causing them to lose out on potential dollars.

 

of course, one could argue that none of this really matters, and that this sort of back-and-forth can be detrimental to the hobby. i don't really know how i feel about it, and that's why i feel good about hiding under the cover of cheapskatedness. keeps me out of the room, in a manner of speaking

[G.A.tor]

hello all...

 

I think most here on the boards know I like to accumulate GA books at as fast of a pace as my wallet will allow and I like to have a good relationship with everyone in this industry, collector and dealer alike...it is just my nature...friendships are far more important to me, than a comic book!

 

I think most here also know that I have voiced support for Metro many times in the past (they have always done right by me), as I have voiced support for Richard/Bedrock (he has always done right by me)......neither of them need me to be an apologist or an activist for them, but both of them have always treated me as I have wanted to be treated.... and neither of them asked me to chime in on this subject, but I am just prone to add my opinion, even when not solicited! -isn't this Parker's thread, anyway (he knows I like to buy from metro and richard)

 

Metro has a great inventory and I try to buy as many books from them as I can (hey, I am like a kid in a candy store)...and Vincent has always given me the best price possible on books (IMO), and it keeps me coming back to them....if you have not bought from them, my experience is you should give him a try....

 

Richard also has a great inventory and has also been a great guy to deal with (even when he cleans me out at the poker table!), and he too has always given me the best price possible on books (IMO), and it keeps me coming back to him...and I would say the same thing, if you haven't bought anything from Bedrock, you need to give him a try too, that is my experience....

 

to me, both guys are great.... to me, billy parker is great (even though he is closet LSU fan!), and I would support him in anything he would ask me to...

 

so, bottom line is, I can't comment on anyone else's relationship with anyone other than with me, and I support them all (parker, richard and vincent!) and I will continue to work on having a strong reporte with them all...

rick

[Dark Knight]

hello all...

 

I think most here on the boards know I like to accumulate GA books at as fast of a pace as my wallet will allow and I like to have a good relationship with everyone in this industry, collector and dealer alike...it is just my nature...friendships are far more important to me, than a comic book!

 

I think most here also know that I have voiced support for Metro many times in the past (they have always done right by me), as I have voiced support for Richard/Bedrock (he has always done right by me)......neither of them need me to be an apologist or an activist for them, but both of them have always treated me as I have wanted to be treated.... and neither of them asked me to chime in on this subject, but I am just prone to add my opinion, even when not solicited! -isn't this Parker's thread, anyway (he knows I like to buy from metro and richard)

 

Metro has a great inventory and I try to buy as many books from them as I can (hey, I am like a kid in a candy store)...and Vincent has always given me the best price possible on books (IMO), and it keeps me coming back to them....if you have not bought from them, my experience is you should give him a try....

 

Richard also has a great inventory and has also been a great guy to deal with (even when he cleans me out at the poker table!), and he too has always given me the best price possible on books (IMO), and it keeps me coming back to him...and I would say the same thing, if you haven't bought anything from Bedrock, you need to give him a try too, that is my experience....

 

to me, both guys are great.... to me, billy parker is great (even though he is closet LSU fan!), and I would support him in anything he would ask me to...

 

so, bottom line is, I can't comment on anyone else's relationship with anyone other than with me, and I support them all (parker, richard and vincent!) and I will continue to work on having a strong reporte with them all...

rick

 

Well said Rick. I have dealt with Metro on a couple occasions and they have treated me well. I suggest talking to Vincent about a book you are interested and you can definitely work out a price that would satisfy the both of you. I've never dealt with Bedrock yet, but I'm sure one day I will. I think both sides of the argument has a legitimate reason to feel that way, but I certainly hope we can all put it aside and be a positive force for the comic book industry and the hobby.

[Socratic Wonder]

hello all...

 

I think most here on the boards know I like to accumulate GA books at as fast of a pace as my wallet will allow and I like to have a good relationship with everyone in this industry, collector and dealer alike...it is just my nature...friendships are far more important to me, than a comic book!

 

I think most here also know that I have voiced support for Metro many times in the past (they have always done right by me), as I have voiced support for Richard/Bedrock (he has always done right by me)......neither of them need me to be an apologist or an activist for them, but both of them have always treated me as I have wanted to be treated.... and neither of them asked me to chime in on this subject, but I am just prone to add my opinion, even when not solicited! -isn't this Parker's thread, anyway (he knows I like to buy from metro and richard)

 

Metro has a great inventory and I try to buy as many books from them as I can (hey, I am like a kid in a candy store)...and Vincent has always given me the best price possible on books (IMO), and it keeps me coming back to them....if you have not bought from them, my experience is you should give him a try....

 

Richard also has a great inventory and has also been a great guy to deal with (even when he cleans me out at the poker table!), and he too has always given me the best price possible on books (IMO), and it keeps me coming back to him...and I would say the same thing, if you haven't bought anything from Bedrock, you need to give him a try too, that is my experience....

 

to me, both guys are great.... to me, billy parker is great (even though he is closet LSU fan!), and I would support him in anything he would ask me to...

 

so, bottom line is, I can't comment on anyone else's relationship with anyone other than with me, and I support them all (parker, richard and vincent!) and I will continue to work on having a strong reporte with them all...

rick

 

I like the positive post Rick!

 

1.) Comics and friendships....

 

2.) All the rest

 

This is definitely the way to look at it!

 

I bought my first GA book from bedrock....he doesn't it know it but I was 17 and it was about 4 years ago at San Diego Comic-Con ...it was a Tec #91 and he was very helpful to a young newbie collector.

 

5 years before that it was Metros booth (and Vincent treating me like someone who had thousands to spend when he really knew I couldn't even afford the mid grade Aquaman #1 they had) at SD Con that got me hooked on collecting in the first place. I went with a friend and his parents because it sounded like fun and that is where my love affair began.

 

So I only have fond memories of those two companies and their owners.

 

Then again I have yet to be burnt in this business so maybe my opinion is biased.

 

I don’t have the long standing friendships with all the collectors and dealers in this industry, as most of you do. This being said I have yet to meet a collector I didn’t like or a dealer who treated me badly. I hope that this never changes!

[Ivanko]

Overall, my experiences have been good with Metro. Their grading is always close one way or another, and they have never been rude. I'm pretty small potato's in collecting and they have always taken time to look up extra info even if I'm buying a $20 book.

 

I, too, hope that everyone can move past the bad mojo and focus on building our great hobby.

[pennynike1]

Metro has a great inventory

 

And it will remain that way as long as their prices remain so high

 

Vincent has always given me the best price possible on books (IMO)

 

Really? PM me. Maybe you can get a pricer price than I have been getting on some books

 

if you have not bought from them, my experience is you should give him a try....

 

Would be happy to, just as long as the previous purchase price of the book is acknowledged as being of some significance.

[Silver Surfer]

Would be happy to, just as long as the previous purchase price of the book is acknowledged as being of some significance.

 

Sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine. Since when should we able to dictate the price that other people should sell their books for? Anyone expect the AF#15 that just sold on Comcilink to hit $210,000? How about the Crippen Suspense #3 that almost hit an outrageous $50,000. Ian Levine use to do this and it drove me nuts.

[pennynike1]

Would be happy to, just as long as the previous purchase price of the book is acknowledged as being of some significance.

 

Sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine. Since when should we able to dictate the price that other people should sell their books for? Anyone expect the AF#15 that just sold on Comcilink to hit $210,000? How about the Crippen Suspense #3 that almost hit an outrageous $50,000. Ian Levine use to do this and it drove me nuts.

 

A person citing the rarest of the rare books as an example to prove a flawed point is a pet peeve of mine. The more money that is involved with a book, the greater the degree in variance in future sales. Perhaps you should introduce me to Ian Levine, as he sounds like he was no one's fool.

 

We are the buyers; they are the sellers. A buyer is in the position to determine the price they are willing to pay. This is exclusive to the specific buyer, and will vary depending on how informed the buyer is, and how much disposable $ a person is willing to pay for some rare inked professionally graded art on paper.

 

The previous purchase price need not dictate a sellers price. If any seller is content with showing off their books at a show or website, that is their right and their privelage. But the previous purchase price will dictate the price that I, as an informed buyer, am willing to pay, as it establishes the market value of the book. Were I to pay $1400 for a book that previously sold for $1,000, you can bet a potential future buyer of the book would cram that previous sales figures in my face (and if he didn't, then he didn't do his homework - or he is rich)

 

The GPAnalysis is an excellent source of information for past sales, and our friend metro here even referenced GP figures in a post in this topic. Want examples? Check out the Heritage Archives of past sales for books, and you will find that most sell for at, or slightly above or below the previous price.

 

Of course, any seller would love to see your attitude regarding the previous purchase price. This is probably why you have purchased from them, and I have not (at least to date).

[october]

previous purchase price will dictate the price that I, as an informed buyer, am willing to pay,as it establishes the market value of the book

 

Maybe if they have multiple data points, but there are plenty (maybe even the majority) of golden age books where there are zero, one or two sales represented in GPA. Should a seller be handicapped price-wise because the same issue sold four years ago for a certain amount?

 

GPA is great for silver and bronze, but often useless when it comes to golden age. One or two sales does not establish a market price. Not to mention the fact that the original sale may have been poorly advertised, the book in question could have weak PQ or QP, ect.

[pennynike1]

Here is a nice example to illustrate the point of my last post. Again, there are exceptions to virtually any argument or position when it comes to the value of comic books, as there is no regulation of the comic market.

 

Phantom Lady #12 CGC 9.0 Mile High Pedigree

 

Previously sold on Heritage in September of last year for $1912

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=752&Lot_No=50023&src=pr#

 

Sold on Comiclink yesterday for $1915

 

http://www.comiclink.com/./Auctions/item.asp?id=705176

[sacentaur]

I find myself disagreeing with CGC's grading more and more...

 

Surfer, I'm confused when you talk about CGC's grading being suspect - wasn't it you at the end of last year that purchased a raw book from Metropolis... sent it in to CGC and rec'd a grade almost two points below Metro's grade... sold the book in disgust on ebay (at a loss)... only to later learn that Metro was the ebay buyer, and that they cracked the book and listed it back up at their website at the almost two points higher grade level?

 

STEVE