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Amazing Fantasy #15 Club

Started by Spider-Variant,

7,730 posts in this topic

sufunk

sufunk

Posted
Posted

I LOVE date stamps and think they are awesome as long as they are neat and well placed. However, even I wouldn't want one on a book like AF15. If it was on the back cover, I'd be fine with it but I definite wouldn't want a front cover date stamp on a AF15 (thumbs u

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Thor Odinson-1970

Thor Odinson-1970

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What amazes me about AF #15 is that no matter what the grade is that red in the center of the book always pops out at you.

 

:headbang:

 

So true.

What a great cover. It's like Kirby new this was going to be BIG.

 

IMO it's the only great Spider-man cover Kirby has ever done.

 

Um... which Avengers Annual has Spidey on the cover? That one actually looked pretty good too. But as much as I like Kirby's work, that man butchered Spidey FAR more often than he scored.

 

That Annual is just a reprint of the cover to Avengers #11.

 

Kirby is a genius but I find it amazing how incapable he was of capturing Spidey. If anything, I think that is part of Spidey's allure...that he has a certain magic that only certain artists can capture and draw out of him into the story.

 

 

+1

 

...And let's not forget the covers to both FF Annual#1 (bottom) & Strange Tales Annual#2 (where Kirby even left out the "spider" on his costume!). You've got to hand it to him though, no one could draw those web lines on Spidey's costume quite like Kirby. :jokealert:

 

FYI. Stan Lee explains in the "Origins of Marvel Comics" TPB (c.1974) why Steve Ditko was chosen to do the interior art instead of Kirby on AF#15. Ditko was much better at capturing the "man on the street" look which Stan Lee was looking for since we're talking about a highschool teenager who just received his powers. Kirby's initial efforts, on the other hand, made Spidey look too muscular and superheroic.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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Kirby had a hard time of making Spidey look dynamic.

 

Ditko's fluid, lithe and lighter lines lended themselves to Spider-man's teenage physique much better.

 

Amazingly enough, after filling her in on the backstory here with all the details we've discussed, I asked Louise (who has never read Spidey or much of any superhero comics) why she thought that Kirby couldn't draw Spidey. She's my sounding board and has a knack for hitting the nail on the head with her first thought and so I thought that her answer was profoundly obvious after saying it. Her reply was that she thought Kirby couldn't draw hands very well.

 

:o

 

Amazingly enough, it takes a special type of artist to draw a hand well, and Kirby was not a hand artist. The small lines and the understanding of anatomy and mechanics in the human body that it takes to draw a hand well are in my opinion the same things that lend themselves to a good Spidey drawing.

 

I don't know how she did it (women have a great sense of perception that men seem to lack) but I thought that it was a very good analysis of why Kirby had a tough time with Spidey.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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2008/2009 were big years for AF #15 prices and there was a plateau in late 2009/2010. Prices seem to be rebounding in 2011 as GPA averages seem to be climbing across the board to their 2009 averages or higher in all grades.

 

 

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Amazingly enough, it takes a special type of artist to draw a hand well, and Kirby was not a hand artist. The small lines and the understanding of anatomy and mechanics in the human body that it takes to draw a hand well are in my opinion the same things that lend themselves to a good Spidey drawing.

 

It's not something I've ever thought of, so I went back and looked at his hands on the cover of Amazing Fantasy 15 and on Fantastic Four 1 through 20. What's wrong with Kirby's hands? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, it's just that Ditko drew so many parts of the human body more awkwardly than Kirby that it's difficult for me to identify the strengths of Ditko's hands as compared to Kirby's.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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Amazingly enough, it takes a special type of artist to draw a hand well, and Kirby was not a hand artist. The small lines and the understanding of anatomy and mechanics in the human body that it takes to draw a hand well are in my opinion the same things that lend themselves to a good Spidey drawing.

 

It's not something I've ever thought of, so I went back and looked at his hands on the cover of Amazing Fantasy 15 and on Fantastic Four 1 through 20. What's wrong with Kirby's hands? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, it's just that Ditko drew so many parts of the human body more awkwardly than Kirby that it's difficult for me to identify the strengths of Ditko's hands as compared to Kirby's.

 

AF #15 is not a good example of typical Kirby hands...you know why? I think Ditko inked Kirby's pencils...but look at the guy under Spidey's arm.

 

Typical Kirby knuckles. To me, they are the litmus test for Kirby artwork. Kirby knuckles are impossible to miss.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I consider Kirby one of the greatest Comic book artists of all time, but he couldn't draw a hand to save his life. Pudgy fingers, lumpy knuckles and poor spacing between the fingers. His greatest strengths were his ability to put out massive amounts of work and his ability to convey action on a larger than life scale.

 

Ditko was a master at the mechanics of the human body...from the way a suit draped on a person to a character's leg work in awkward situations to hands. I think that is why he was well suited to draw Spidey and Kirby wasn't.

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sufunk

sufunk

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Amazingly enough, it takes a special type of artist to draw a hand well, and Kirby was not a hand artist. The small lines and the understanding of anatomy and mechanics in the human body that it takes to draw a hand well are in my opinion the same things that lend themselves to a good Spidey drawing.

 

It's not something I've ever thought of, so I went back and looked at his hands on the cover of Amazing Fantasy 15 and on Fantastic Four 1 through 20. What's wrong with Kirby's hands? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, it's just that Ditko drew so many parts of the human body more awkwardly than Kirby that it's difficult for me to identify the strengths of Ditko's hands as compared to Kirby's.

 

AF #15 is not a good example of typical Kirby hands...you know why? I think Ditko inked Kirby's pencils...but look at the guy under Spidey's arm.

 

Typical Kirby knuckles. To me, they are the litmus test for Kirby artwork. Kirby knuckles are impossible to miss.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I consider Kirby one of the greatest Comic book artists of all time, but he couldn't draw a hand to save his life. Pudgy fingers, lumpy knuckles and poor spacing between the fingers. His greatest strengths were his ability to put out massive amounts of work and his ability to convey action on a larger than life scale.

 

Ditko was a master at the mechanics of the human body...from the way a suit draped on a person to a character's leg work in awkward situations to hands. I think that is why he was well suited to draw Spidey and Kirby wasn't.

 

+1

 

The hands on the guy Spidey is holding are HORRIBLE! My 8 year old daughter draws better hands than that! His left pinky looks like a thumb doh!

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Thor Odinson-1970

Thor Odinson-1970

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Posted
Amazingly enough, it takes a special type of artist to draw a hand well, and Kirby was not a hand artist. The small lines and the understanding of anatomy and mechanics in the human body that it takes to draw a hand well are in my opinion the same things that lend themselves to a good Spidey drawing.

 

It's not something I've ever thought of, so I went back and looked at his hands on the cover of Amazing Fantasy 15 and on Fantastic Four 1 through 20. What's wrong with Kirby's hands? I'm not necessarily disagreeing, it's just that Ditko drew so many parts of the human body more awkwardly than Kirby that it's difficult for me to identify the strengths of Ditko's hands as compared to Kirby's.

 

AF #15 is not a good example of typical Kirby hands...you know why? I think Ditko inked Kirby's pencils...but look at the guy under Spidey's arm.

 

Typical Kirby knuckles. To me, they are the litmus test for Kirby artwork. Kirby knuckles are impossible to miss.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I consider Kirby one of the greatest Comic book artists of all time, but he couldn't draw a hand to save his life. Pudgy fingers, lumpy knuckles and poor spacing between the fingers. His greatest strengths were his ability to put out massive amounts of work and his ability to convey action on a larger than life scale.

 

Ditko was a master at the mechanics of the human body...from the way a suit draped on a person to a character's leg work in awkward situations to hands. I think that is why he was well suited to draw Spidey and Kirby wasn't.

 

+1

 

The hands on the guy Spidey is holding are HORRIBLE! My 8 year old daughter draws better hands than that! His left pinky looks like a thumb doh!

 

Now, now. Let's all be nice to the late "king". (tsk) Let's not forget that Kirby was doing the artwork for the lion's share (the majority?) of Marvel's titles during the early half of Marvel's SA. I especially enjoy his run on JIM/Thor, though I do notice a slight change over the years mainly due to having different inkers (ie. Sinnott, Stone, Colletta, etc.).

If you want to point out faults, let's remember that there were a few far worse artists working for Marvel during that era whose names I don't need to mention here. :whistle:

Kirby and Ditko were Picassos by comparison! (worship)

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VintageComics

VintageComics

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Wasn't meaning to pick on Kirby. Simply trying to show why he had a tough time capturing Spidey. Much like Ditko couldn't draw the Huk. lol

 

(thumbs u

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Thor Odinson-1970

Thor Odinson-1970

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This may be a bit off topic from this AF#15 Club thread, but now that you mention it, I do have a copy of Hulk#6, which many collectors seem to treasure BTW. Steve Ditko did have his own "unique" style drawing the Hulk. In that particular issue, doesn't his Hulk look (or remind you) the most like Frankenstein's monster than just about any other artist's work on the Hulk? hm

 

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Mac Man

Mac Man

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To this day the best rendition of Spidey comes from Romita, hands down!

 

+1

(thumbs u

 

Agreed. IMHO, the "Jazzy" one drew the definitive Spidey from whom others followed (ie. Gil Kane, Ross Andru, Keith Pollard, Romita Jr., etc.).

 

And yet, I've heard it from the man himself who he thinks the definitive Spidey artist is ;)

 

For my part, I don't really like to compare John and Steve's work on Spider-Man. Both did so much with the foundations of Peter Parker and the Spider-Man mythos that it gets tricky to figure who's "best."

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Hepcat

Hepcat

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Oh great, this will really cause the "flippers" to totally lose their collective minds! :screwy:

 

Has anybody else heard the rumour that this "reported' sale is a sham? That it's a fictitious transaction whose sole purpose is to manipulate the prices of Amazing Fantasy 15 upwards? It's private and I've not heard of the seller stepping forward.

 

hm

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Mac Man

Mac Man

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Oh great, this will really cause the "flippers" to totally lose their collective minds! :screwy:

 

Has anybody else heard the rumour that this "reported' sale is a sham? That it's a fictitious transaction whose sole purpose is to manipulate the prices of Amazing Fantasy 15 upwards? It's private and I've not heard of the seller stepping forward.

 

hm

 

Haven't heard it to date. Where are you hearing this from? I'd only be surprised as Metro has been putting themselves forward in the limelight quite a bit with their record sales, and being found out to be fraudulent, well, that'd be more damage to their rep than I'm sure it'd be worth (esp. since they've already picked up more than one $1 million dollar sale).

 

Not saying that you're wrong, but I'd be curious who is suggesting this is all.

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