HULK # 1 CLUB 21 21

[Sqeggs]

A 5.5 just sold for $19.5k too..

 

http://item.ebay.co.uk/171955148000?item_hash4=667e45f8&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true

 

-J.

 

Improvable?

 

Following that other recent sale of the 6.5 for $30k, just under $20k for a nice presenting 5.5 might be about right now.

 

-J.

 

Don't let Bob know or he'll raise the price of his copy.

[Jaydogrules]

A 5.5 just sold for $19.5k too..

 

http://item.ebay.co.uk/171955148000?item_hash4=667e45f8&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true

 

-J.

 

Improvable?

 

Following that other recent sale of the 6.5 for $30k, just under $20k for a nice presenting 5.5 might be about right now.

 

-J.

 

Don't let Bob know or he'll raise the price of his copy.

 

He hasn't already ?

 

-J.

[VintageComics]

A 5.5 just sold for $19.5k too..

 

http://item.ebay.co.uk/171955148000?item_hash4=667e45f8&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true

 

-J.

 

Improvable?

 

Following that other recent sale of the 6.5 for $30k, just under $20k for a nice presenting 5.5 might be about right now.

 

-J.

 

You mean this Hulk 1 CGC 6.5 Old label Insane book and looks like an 8.0?

[Jaydogrules]

A 5.5 just sold for $19.5k too..

 

http://item.ebay.co.uk/171955148000?item_hash4=667e45f8&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true

 

-J.

 

Improvable?

 

Following that other recent sale of the 6.5 for $30k, just under $20k for a nice presenting 5.5 might be about right now.

 

-J.

 

You mean this Hulk 1 CGC 6.5 Old label Insane book and looks like an 8.0?

 

A 6.0 also sold for $23k back in February .

 

All things considered the prices all seem pretty consistent to me at this point.

 

-J.

[VintageComics]

A 6.0 also sold for $23k back in February .

 

$22K actually.

 

Where did that Hulk #1 6.0 sell?

 

Was it a possibly upgradeable copy?

 

CGC 6.5 copies sold for $23 and 24.7K during that same time period in Feb and May.

 

I think you understand my point - a new outlier is not automatically a floor for a book. It's just a data point.

[GAMBIT]

A 6.0 also sold for $23k back in February .

 

$22K actually.

 

Where did that Hulk #1 6.0 sell?

 

Was it a possibly upgradeable copy?

 

CGC 6.5 copies sold for $23 and 24.7K during that same time period in Feb and May.

 

I think you understand my point - a new outlier is not automatically a floor for a book. It's just a data point.

 

 

Also a 5.0 sold for 13k on dec 6th (eBay).

[Jaydogrules]

A 6.0 also sold for $23k back in February .

 

$22K actually.

 

Where did that Hulk #1 6.0 sell?

 

Was it a possibly upgradeable copy?

 

CGC 6.5 copies sold for $23 and 24.7K during that same time period in Feb and May.

 

I think you understand my point - a new outlier is not automatically a floor for a book. It's just a data point.

 

Yes but we have enough data points to (conceivably and reasonably) determine that these are not "outliers" as the term usually suggests only one randomly high sale. Here we have an easily identifiable trend that is observed over an extended period of time and over multiple mid-range grades.

 

To wit, 5.0's have been selling for $13k-$14k, which would support a price point of $19.5k for a solid looking 5.5 which would easily support a price point of $22k+++ for a 6.0 (a price that is from nearly a year ago now), which would in turn support a price point of $30k for a nice presenting 6.5.

 

-J.

[VintageComics]

A 6.0 also sold for $23k back in February .

 

$22K actually.

 

Where did that Hulk #1 6.0 sell?

 

Was it a possibly upgradeable copy?

 

CGC 6.5 copies sold for $23 and 24.7K during that same time period in Feb and May.

 

I think you understand my point - a new outlier is not automatically a floor for a book. It's just a data point.

 

Yes but we have enough data points to (conceivably and reasonably) determine that these are not "outliers" as the term usually suggests only one randomly high sale. Here we have an easily identifiable trend that is observed over an extended period of time and over multiple mid-range grades.

 

To wit, 5.0's have been selling for $13k-$14k, which would support a price point of $19.5k for a solid looking 5.5 which would easily support a price point of $22k+++ for a 6.0 (a price that is from nearly a year ago now), which would in turn support a price point of $30k for a nice presenting 6.5.

 

-J.

 

If by saying 'solid looking' you mean 'upgrade potential candidate' then I agree. Outlier does not usually suggest one random sale. It suggest a sale that lies outside of the normal range. And most of the Hulk #1's that I've followed that are outliers were upgrade candidates.

 

I thought Hulk $1 was already a $3K/ point book in those mid grades, so $13-14K is not unreasonable for a 5.0. I still don't see how that makes a 5.5 a $19K book.

 

I have no idea where you are getting your other price points from. Nearly every 'outlier' Hulk #1 sale was a book that looked to have upgrade potential.

 

I'm all for agreeing that books that are strong in grade will fetch strong prices but I haven't seen the Hulk #1 prices that you're seeing as averages- and I've sold copies in nearly every grade up to 9.0 in the last 2 years.

 

So where did that 6.0 copy sell for $22K? does anyone have a scan of it?

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

A 6.0 also sold for $23k back in February .

 

$22K actually.

 

Where did that Hulk #1 6.0 sell?

 

Was it a possibly upgradeable copy?

 

CGC 6.5 copies sold for $23 and 24.7K during that same time period in Feb and May.

 

I think you understand my point - a new outlier is not automatically a floor for a book. It's just a data point.

 

Yes but we have enough data points to (conceivably and reasonably) determine that these are not "outliers" as the term usually suggests only one randomly high sale. Here we have an easily identifiable trend that is observed over an extended period of time and over multiple mid-range grades.

 

To wit, 5.0's have been selling for $13k-$14k, which would support a price point of $19.5k for a solid looking 5.5 which would easily support a price point of $22k+++ for a 6.0 (a price that is from nearly a year ago now), which would in turn support a price point of $30k for a nice presenting 6.5.

 

-J.

 

If by saying 'solid looking' you mean 'upgrade potential candidate' then I agree. Outlier does not usually suggest one random sale. It suggest a sale that lies outside of the normal range. And most of the Hulk #1's that I've followed that are outliers were upgrade candidates.

 

I thought Hulk $1 was already a $3K/ point book in those mid grades, so $13-14K is not unreasonable for a 5.0. I still don't see how that makes a 5.5 a $19K book.

 

I have no idea where you are getting your other price points from. Nearly every 'outlier' Hulk #1 sale was a book that looked to have upgrade potential.

 

I'm all for agreeing that books that are strong in grade will fetch strong prices but I haven't seen the Hulk #1 prices that you're seeing as averages- and I've sold copies in nearly every grade up to 9.0 in the last 2 years.

 

So where did that 6.0 copy sell for $22K? does anyone have a scan of it?

 

 

All the info I quoted is the publicly available sales data from GPA.

 

And I'm not sure that I'm willing to play along with the notion that "all" the strong prices we are seeing for hulk 1 in mid grades right now are "outliers" or have "upgrade potential". If it were that cut and dried any one of those sellers of those books would have "upgraded" them themselves and then sold them. And even if the recent 6.5 sale was an outlier, it obviously has influenced prices of grades below it, just as those bombshell sales of the 9.2 copies last year for $300k influenced prices across the board for hulk 1. As I demonstrated , each half garde has ample price support beneath it and above it in those particular mid grades. The market has obviously moved (or is moving). I'm actually not really sure what you're debating since "one sale moving the market" happens all the time in this hobby, and particularly with a book like hulk 1 (or showcase 4). A nice presenting 5.5 just went for nearly $20k. Are you telling me that if you had a similarly nice presenting 5.5 you would undercut that price and leave a couple grand on the table because.......reasons ?

 

Of course you wouldn't.

 

-J.

[blazingbob]

Who sets the "per point" price?

 

I see it used for Batman #1's, I see it used on other keys.

 

Is that a "Ask Rick" question.

 

Who is the all seeing point generator?

 

I see a new website needed PPP.com - PricePerPoint.com

 

Much easier to use then GPA, only one entry per book.

 

Payments can be made to bobstorms@highgradecomics.com

Edited December 29, 2015 by blazingbob

[Hulksdaddy1]

As my old pappy used to say, "A book is worth what someone will pay for it. No more, no less."

 

Old pappy was wise.

 

[VintageComics]

All the info I quoted is the publicly available sales data from GPA.

 

I realize that. That's why I asked where the 6.0 sale was from and if anyone had a scan of it.

 

And I'm not sure that I'm willing to play along with the notion that "all" the strong prices we are seeing for hulk 1 in mid grades right now are "outliers" or have "upgrade potential".

 

That's not what I implied. You're taking liberty with my words. What i said was that all of the outliers that I've seen seem to be extremely strong examples for the grade and possible upgrade candidates. That's enough for me to form an opinion.

 

And I'm not sure that I'm willing to play along with the notion that "all" the strong prices we are seeing for hulk 1 in mid grades right now are "outliers" or have "upgrade potential".

 

So just because you personally didn't see a book come back to market that excludes them from being upgrade candidates? That's pretty logical.

 

And even if the recent 6.5 sale was an outlier, it obviously has influenced prices of grades below it, just as those bombshell sales of the 9.2 copies last year for $300k influenced prices across the board for hulk 1.

 

The reasoning behind the 9.2 pricing is entirely different than the logic for the 6.5 pricing. The 9.2 price was set by being the best available copy with only a higher 9.4 being locked up and dynamics between other comparable books.

 

The 6.5 is comparable to surrounding grades which have a much more established track data.

 

As I demonstrated , each half garde has ample price support beneath it and above it in those particular mid grades. The market has obviously moved (or is moving).

 

No, you demonstrated a $6K price jump from 5.0 - 5.5 and the example you used was an old label 5.5 that looked much better than the assigned grade.

 

I'm actually not really sure what you're debating since "one sale moving the market" happens all the time in this hobby, and particularly with a book like hulk 1 (or showcase 4).

 

I'm pretty clear with what I'm debating. Books that are likely upgrade candidates hit the market, they set a new market top because someone likely plans on the upgrade but the GPA data doesn't take this into account and then people assume the GPA price point is a new floor for the book. It isn't complicated and it's happened time and time again.

 

A nice presenting 5.5 just went for nearly $20k. Are you telling me that if you had a similarly nice presenting 5.5 you would undercut that price and leave a couple grand on the table because.......reasons ?

 

Actually, i would. I priced all of my Hulk #1's in the past year based on market averages rather than market outliers. I think through what the correct price 'should' be based on all the data available to me (not just one or two price points) and then price it accordingly.

[Jaydogrules]

 

Up until this most recent 5.5 sale there was a $7k spread between a 5.5 and a 6.0 all year. With this most recent sale of a 6.5 there is now an $8k spread between a 6.0 and a 6.5 (though that will probably narrow some the next time a 6.0 comes up). So is there anything "outlier" about a $6000 spread between a 5.0 and a 5.5? Nope. As I said, it looks consistent to me at least within that cluster of grades.

 

Also, that "old label" 5.5 that just sold is not even particularly nice looking for its grade IMO, mostly because of that jagged, over hanging top edge and the pre-marvel chipping on the top right edge. That book ain't "upgrading" to nothin and I would find it hard to believe anybody who would know what they are doing bought it for that reason.

 

No, somebody just decided that they wanted a decent looking mid grade copy of a Hulk 1 NOW and they paid strong for it. Happens all the time.

 

That's what moves (and has moved ) the market. Although in this instance , it just moved a 5.5 a little further away from a 5.0 pricing and a little closer to a 6.0. Stop the presses! Always a pleasure.

 

-J.

[GAMBIT]

 

Up until this most recent 5.5 sale there was a $7k spread between a 5.5 and a 6.0 all year. With this most recent sale of a 6.5 there is now an $8k spread between a 6.0 and a 6.5 (though that will probably narrow some the next time a 6.0 comes up). So is there anything "outlier" about a $6000 spread between a 5.0 and a 5.5? Nope. As I said, it looks consistent to me at least within that cluster of grades.

 

Also, that "old label" 5.5 that just sold is not even particularly nice looking for its grade IMO, mostly because of that jagged, over hanging top edge and the pre-marvel chipping on the top right edge. That book ain't "upgrading" to nothin and I would find it hard to believe anybody who would know what they are doing bought it for that reason.

 

No, somebody just decided that they wanted a decent looking mid grade copy of a Hulk 1 NOW and they paid strong for it. Happens all the time.

 

That's what moves (and has moved ) the market. Although in this instance , it just moved a 5.5 a little further away from a 5.0 pricing and a little closer to a 6.0. Stop the presses! Always a pleasure.

 

 

 

-J.

 

 

I agree with the bold comment, however I believe this "buyer" bought for the label and possible upgrade , ( due to that label) Which called for the strong price . Which also happens all the time with old labels

[VintageComics]

Who sets the "per point" price?

 

Everyone just has a range that they believe a book is currently selling for based on their own observations or theories.

[VintageComics]

So where did that 6.0 copy sell for $22K? does anyone have a scan of it?

 

Gosh darn it, nobody seems to have any additional info on this book?

[Sqeggs]

Who sets the "per point" price?

 

Everyone just has a range that they believe a book is currently selling for based on their own observations or theories.

 

Gator's the first one I can recall using the price per point terminology.

[VintageComics]

 

I'm not sure if this means you doubt that I don't use outlier data but I sold my last Hulk #1 CGC 6.5 in Feb for $23K to a boardie, even thought the $22K CGC 6.0 sale was already posted on GPA AND a $30K 6.5 sale happened on Clink at the same time. I didn't use the outlier price to price my own book because I believed those two books were bought to be improved.

 

Up until this most recent 5.5 sale there was a $7k spread between a 5.5 and a 6.0 all year. With this most recent sale of a 6.5 there is now an $8k spread between a 6.0 and a 6.5 (though that will probably narrow some the next time a 6.0 comes up). So is there anything "outlier" about a $6000 spread between a 5.0 and a 5.5? Nope. As I said, it looks consistent to me at least within that cluster of grades.

 

Again, GPA prices don't tell the whole story. It's a multidimensional discussion. There is eye appeal to consider, market forces (Hulk #1 didn't get hot until July onwards), and when exactly the sales were recorded. The sales venue also matters. I'm a little more doubtful of eBay BIN sales because it's become more common for people to try to 'move the market' by just manufacturing sales on eBay.

 

CGC 6.0 prices were still being established (and climbing) from their previous average in the $9-10K range to their new average in the mid to high teens (I figured a 6.0 for an $18K book once the dust settled in 2014 but they did sell for less earlier in the summer as the book had just started to pop).

 

Meanwhile a 5.5 sale for $15K didn't happen on GPA until January 2015. But I sold a 5.5 to a dealer who resold the book for $15K (or slightly north of that) months prior.

 

So not really enough data on GPA prices to paint the entire picture.

 

But assessing all the grades as a whole, including sales that I made and knew about that weren't on GPA helped me fill in where I thought the books should have been.

 

That's why I pegged a 6.0 in the $18K range and a 5.5 in the $16K range at that point in time.

 

I believe that the 5.5, the 6.5 (and possibly the 6.0 - we'll know if we can identify the exact book) were all outlier sales in the sense that they looked much better than the assigned grade and were very possible upgrade candidates.

 

I know you're arguing that the 5.5 wasn't one but even though it's actually impossible to say from tiny pics, I'd lean towards a yes as my official opinion. I'm actually not too bad at this 'grading thing'.

 

Let me ask you, if these books that we are discussing are not outlier prices, then why do similar priced copies in comparable grades sit unsold?

 

And why does GPA have recorded sales in what I consider the appropriate price range during the same time frame that these outlier sales are happening?

 

My answer is obvious - the books with the outlier numbers are books that look better than the assigned grade.

 

So is there anything "outlier" about a $6000 spread between a 5.0 and a 5.5? Nope. As I said, it looks consistent to me at least within that cluster of grades.

 

It looks consistent if you are comparing 3 outliers to each other.

 

That's what moves (and has moved ) the market. Although in this instance , it just moved a 5.5 a little further away from a 5.0 pricing and a little closer to a 6.0.

 

I'm not disagreeing that new price points move the market.

 

I'm disagreeing on your reasoning for why the new price points moved.

 

[VintageComics]

And I could of course be completely wrong, and books like Showcase #4 and AF #15 could be pushing the Hulk #1 market up as well.

 

But I'm just expressing my opinions and the reasoning behind them, wrong or right.

[nearmint]

A 5.5 just sold for $19.5k too..

 

http://item.ebay.co.uk/171955148000?item_hash4=667e45f8&LH_Complete=1&LH_BIN=1&LH_BO=1&_ipg=200&_pgn=1&rc=nt&rmvSB=true

 

-J.

 

Improvable?

 

I don't think so. And C-OW pages.