Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[comicwiz]

its funny how people act so surprised. I remember reading these boards years ago during the whole PGX vs CGC debates. As much as people like to talk about how PGX is "just some guy in his garage", CGC is still just "a bunch of guys"

 

people make mistakes, and there are TONS of things that scream unprofessional about the way CGC operates.

 

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

Until all graders notes are free and public, and the grading standards are available free and public, the whole thing is laughable.

 

They use the fact that everybody is making money, to fight off any need for accountability. They need to hire a lot more graders, hire a lot more software engineers (for the registry and this site), hire paid moderators for the board.

 

Then they might stop being "a bunch of guys" who rent a bigger garage, in a commercial area...

 

Agreed, especially on the bolded part.

 

AND...

 

this could have been remedied instantly by going with the suggestion of taking the book off the market.

 

A write down over a reputation bruiser any day of the week.

 

Why? Because once a book goes from blue to purple, there is always that possibility it returns blue.

 

Of course CGC had it's head up it's arse too long trying to play the "can't prove it's the same book unless it's submitted in it's blue label holder."

 

They got exactly what was coming to them.

[topcat54]

This is making it harder for me to send in my FIRST set of books to be graded.

[stanley1883]

So what's a possible outcome here?

If they admit that they screwed up, what then?

Compensate Spider-Dan? (I wouldn't hold my breathe)

Issue a mea culpa and that's it? (seems likely, the "everyone makes mistakes" cop out)

Or maybe they are really off their rocker and offer discounted submissions.

 

Though I agree with errors being very unique, I still wouldn't completely rule out denial.

 

Their response is more suspenseful than the grading tournament!

 

 

[kav]

Sure glad I'm a raw bookist......

[RockMyAmadeus]

Of course, every single one of the arguments that "CGC's methods of detecting resto X years ago were not as good then as they are now" that were made in the last go-round are now defunct.

 

I'd love to hear the conversations about this at the office.

 

Even the guarantee on the back of the label...that the book has been examined by "at least one pre-grader and two graders"...has now been changed to "Before a comic book is CGC-certified, it must be graded by at least two comic professionals according to well established standards that ensure integrity, quality, confidentiality and consistency."

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/about/grading_benefits.asp

 

What exactly is a "comic professional"....? (Hint: it's wide open.)

 

What are the "well established standards", and how does one go about independently verifying that they are, in fact, "well established"...?

 

This is why there should have been legitimate competition very quickly after CGC opened. All of you reading this with the means to do so, but turned it down because it wasn't a good enough investment...you should have let principle make that decision, rather than profit. Competition makes EVERYONE better.

[Dick Pontoon]

Looks like the same rug to me.

[namisgr]

So much hub-bub now, but it's a longstanding problem. There have been many board members who've posted their prior experiences with books changing label colors with multiple submissions, including original owner books that are known to be untrimmed with absolute certainty.

 

As for the CGC claim that 'everyone' decided the comic was trimmed, that's simply their way of deflecting from the problem. The CGC business model is focused on volume, and it seems extremely unlikely that all of the restoration detectors and graders would have taken time away from their regular duties to thoroughly look over this one book.

 

CGC is fallible with trimming detection, and this is another of many known examples.

[stanley1883]

its funny how people act so surprised. I remember reading these boards years ago during the whole PGX vs CGC debates. As much as people like to talk about how PGX is "just some guy in his garage", CGC is still just "a bunch of guys"

 

people make mistakes, and there are TONS of things that scream unprofessional about the way CGC operates.

 

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

Until all graders notes are free and public, and the grading standards are available free and public, the whole thing is laughable.

 

They use the fact that everybody is making money, to fight off any need for accountability. They need to hire a lot more graders, hire a lot more software engineers (for the registry and this site), hire paid moderators for the board.

 

Then they might stop being "a bunch of guys" who rent a bigger garage, in a commercial area...

 

Agreed, especially on the bolded part. AND, this could have been remedied instantly by going with the suggestion of taking the book off the market. A write down over a reputation bruiser any day of the week.

 

Why? Because once a book goes from blue to purple, there is always that possibility it returns blue.

 

Of course CGC had it's head up it's arse too long trying to play the "can't prove it's the same book unless it's submitted in it's blue label holder."

 

They got exactly what was coming to them.

 

Occasions like this, regardless of how often they occur, is why we as the collectors, fans, sellers, etc need a viable alternative to CGC. With nothing threatening their bottom line, they won't be inclined to do anything.

 

Let's not delude ourselves, CGC cares about nothing except their profits. Unless the vast majority of us stop using them until something is done, this isn't even a blip on their radar, regardless of how much we think it is.

[zuckuss2003]

Looks like the same rug to me.

Good point, no scanner for this high value book. Lay it on the floor and take a photo...

[stanley1883]

its funny how people act so surprised. I remember reading these boards years ago during the whole PGX vs CGC debates. As much as people like to talk about how PGX is "just some guy in his garage", CGC is still just "a bunch of guys"

 

people make mistakes, and there are TONS of things that scream unprofessional about the way CGC operates.

 

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

Until all graders notes are free and public, and the grading standards are available free and public, the whole thing is laughable.

 

They use the fact that everybody is making money, to fight off any need for accountability. They need to hire a lot more graders, hire a lot more software engineers (for the registry and this site), hire paid moderators for the board.

 

Then they might stop being "a bunch of guys" who rent a bigger garage, in a commercial area...

 

Agreed, especially on the bolded part. AND, this could have been remedied instantly by going with the suggestion of taking the book off the market. A write down over a reputation bruiser any day of the week.

 

Why? Because once a book goes from blue to purple, there is always that possibility it returns blue.

 

Of course CGC had it's head up it's arse too long trying to play the "can't prove it's the same book unless it's submitted in it's blue label holder."

 

They got exactly what was coming to them.

 

Occasions like this, regardless of how often they occur, is why we as the collectors, fans, sellers, etc need a viable alternative to CGC. With nothing threatening their bottom line, they won't be inclined to do anything.

 

Let's not delude ourselves, CGC cares about nothing except their profits. Unless the vast majority of us stop using them until something is done, this isn't even a blip on their radar, regardless of how much we think it is.

 

says the guy with CGC books in his sig line. I know, but PGX was not an option.

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

Sorry to hear that S-D, that really sucks.

 

So, it was a blue label 6 twice, and a PLOD 7 once. So, we can assume the PLOD was wrong. 2 outta 3.

 

The response was bullpoop, but standard, and expected. Every company does it. Buy expensive cars. Dealers love telling you weird mess is "normal".

 

Grading is subjective, and opinion, ALWAYS, whether CGC, you, or me. People make mistakes. I'm sure CGC has made many, many mistakes. We'll never know, books are encapsulated.

 

Bottom line, don't expect perfection. Doctors make mistakes, lawyers make mistakes, presidents make mistakes. People. Make. Mistakes. We get over it, and move on. It WILL happen again. Part of life.

 

BTW S-D, the buyer must be bat-poop ecstatic.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Of course, every single one of the arguments that "CGC's methods of detecting resto X years ago were not as good then as they are now" that were made in the last go-round are now defunct.

 

I'd love to hear the conversations about this at the office.

 

Even the guarantee on the back of the label...that the book has been examined by "at least one pre-grader and two graders"...has now been changed to "Before a comic book is CGC-certified, it must be graded by at least two comic professionals according to well established standards that ensure integrity, quality, confidentiality and consistency."

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/about/grading_benefits.asp

 

What exactly is a "comic professional"....? (Hint: it's wide open.)

 

What are the "well established standards", and how does one go about independently verifying that they are, in fact, "well established"...?

 

This is why there should have been legitimate competition very quickly after CGC opened. All of you reading this with the means to do so, but turned it down because it wasn't a good enough investment...you should have let principle make that decision, rather than profit. Competition makes EVERYONE better.

+1

[comicwiz]

This isn't your typical case.

 

The original thread went to great lengths to explain an issue which CGC has itself regarded "rare."

 

The issue spread outside of these boards, and I'd even caught wind of people talking about this outside of the Bleeding Cool article.

 

I'll give you that there have been a number of "discussed" situations of blue to purple in the over ten years I've been here. I knew of a handful myself, and they were the basis to me posing the hypothetical scenario to Mark Zaid in the CCS coming out thread.

 

However, the fact pattern discussed in the OP's original incident thread, and what's taken place now, simply cannot be compared to any single or multiple incident forum members here experienced.

 

To reiterate. Two blue label books, both submitted by the same person, turning purple, despite CGC's insistence this is a "rare" event. And, no way, no how were they wrong about the regrade opinion - they were convinced both deserved to be in purple holders.

 

One comes back blue within the space of a little over a month of the OP first going public.

 

This is no longer a discussion about "acceptable" human fallibility. This makes PGX look competent.

[kav]

Vault is looking pretty good right now....

[Spider-Dan]

Looks like the same rug to me.

Good point, no scanner for this high value book. Lay it on the floor and take a photo...

 

Close, but I don't think its the same

[kav]

Yeah the second rug has brown spots.

[ComicConnoisseur]

its funny how people act so surprised. I remember reading these boards years ago during the whole PGX vs CGC debates. As much as people like to talk about how PGX is "just some guy in his garage", CGC is still just "a bunch of guys"

 

people make mistakes, and there are TONS of things that scream unprofessional about the way CGC operates.

 

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

Until all graders notes are free and public, and the grading standards are available free and public, the whole thing is laughable.

 

They use the fact that everybody is making money, to fight off any need for accountability. They need to hire a lot more graders, hire a lot more software engineers (for the registry and this site), hire paid moderators for the board.

 

Then they might stop being "a bunch of guys" who rent a bigger garage, in a commercial area...

 

Agreed, especially on the bolded part. AND, this could have been remedied instantly by going with the suggestion of taking the book off the market. A write down over a reputation bruiser any day of the week.

 

Why? Because once a book goes from blue to purple, there is always that possibility it returns blue.

 

Of course CGC had it's head up it's arse too long trying to play the "can't prove it's the same book unless it's submitted in it's blue label holder."

 

They got exactly what was coming to them.

 

Occasions like this, regardless of how often they occur, is why we as the collectors, fans, sellers, etc need a viable alternative to CGC. With nothing threatening their bottom line, they won't be inclined to do anything.

 

Let's not delude ourselves, CGC cares about nothing except their profits. Unless the vast majority of us stop using them until something is done, this isn't even a blip on their radar, regardless of how much we think it is.

How about they break it up and reorganize it?

An example is

Have special graders and policies for golden age.

Have special graders and policies for silver age.

Have special graders and policies for bronze and copper.

Have special graders and policies for modern.

then have a special team to look at resto,trimming and yes tape.

This would also maybe help out on shipping times.

IMHO they spend and focus way to much time on grading modern comic books that just came out.

Edited March 31, 2014 by ComicConnoisseur

[oldbsturgeon]

Now if this thread disappears today , it probably is a conspiracy

[Spider-Dan]

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

I'm not sure it's been established that the book is actually trimmed or not.

 

Due to the Scarlet letter on this book, new owner wishes to remain unknown.

[mysterio]

This isn't your typical case.

 

The original thread went to great lengths to explain an issue which CGC has itself regarded "rare."

 

The issue spread outside of these boards, and I'd even caught wind of people talking about this outside of the Bleeding Cool article.

 

I'll give you that there have been a number of "discussed" situations of blue to purple in the over ten years I've been here. I knew of a handful myself, and they were the basis to me posing the hypothetical scenario to Mark Zaid in the CCS coming out thread.

 

However, the fact pattern discussed in the OP's original incident thread, and what's taken place now, simply cannot be compared to any single or multiple incident forum members here experienced.

 

To reiterate. Two blue label books, both submitted, turning purple. Despite CGC's insistence this is a "rare" event. And, no way, no how were they wrong about the regrade opinion - they were convinced both deserved to be in purple holders.

 

One comes back blue within the space of a little over a month of the OP first going public.

 

This is no longer a discussion about "acceptable" human fallibility. This makes PGX look competent.

 

Not sure I would support that last sentence, but will happily +1 everything else.