Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[conditionfreak]

From the original poster on page 1.

 

"Harshen claimed everyone in the building with grading credibility looked at the book, and EVERYONE agreed it was trimmed. He couldn't find anyone to disagree."

 

Could this mean that "everyone in the building with grading credibility" was actually one person, at that specific date and time?

 

Or does it mean that everyone employed by CGC as a pre-grader, grader, or grading overseer, looked at this book and agreed that it was trimmed?

 

Could Spider Dan's writing above, actually be not quite correct in wording and recollection?

 

I would like Harshen or someone else in authority at CGC, to visit this thread and comment on this whole situation. I mean, besides the same ole "we will take another look at it". Because there have apparently been at least 9 looks at this book already. With six stating that it is not trimmed and three stating that it is trimmed.

 

Maybe it is vacation time at CGC, and they only have one person grading during vacation time?

 

 

[conditionfreak]

Not the same rug and not the same camera.

[jaeldubyoo]

Bottom line, don't expect perfection. Doctors make mistakes, lawyers make mistakes, presidents make mistakes. People. Make. Mistakes. We get over it, and move on. It WILL happen again. Part of life.

 

 

Bottom line, when those people make mistakes, people may die. I sure as hell wouldn't want anything less than perfection from them if I had to depend on their opinion. Why settle for less? The doctors and lawyers are certainly liable for their mistakes. Even the president has to answer to congress.

 

Of course, people don't die because of a CGC mistake. But it may cost you money. Even though they may be human, would you settle for less with your comics? Are you willing to suffer a financial loss because of their error? I don't think so.

[Bomber-Bob]

This was originally my book, purchased in the 1st 6.0 slab 5+ years ago.

The book was part of a deal between Dan and I. I was as shocked as anybody about the PLOD but Dan didn't blame me and I remained stealth.

The deal between Dan and I had it's share of drama anyway and I had nothing to add.

This is definitely the same book. The book had a vertical reader's crease, near the spine, that ran practically the full length of the book. I remember showing the book to Matt years ago and he said the book could not be improved and had just as much chance as coming back a 5.5 as a 6.5 = he advised against a resub. I guess he was correct on that call.

I have nothing concrete to add to this situation but I do have one BIG question. Why would the new owner resub this book, especially in a Walkthrough tier? Surely he did not expect this outcome. Did he expect a higher grade ? I thought the 7.0, for a book length crease, was generous.

Something seems funny here. I suspect if we knew the identity of the new owner we may be even more upset.

[Bills Comics]

Maybe CGC handled it so much looking for the "Phantom Restoration" they damaged the book enough to go from a 7.0 to 6.0 .

 

[comicwiz]

That's a valid point to raise. However I'm also inclined to think CGC wouldn't overturn their decision at that point in time, and it was far more important to them to "keep appearances" than actually do something to deal with the situation with the necessary corrective action and seriousness it deserved.

 

The fact the book came back blue is crystal clear indication of this.

 

The point that I kept insisting, but quickly realized, just couldn't be emphasized without the benefit of hindsight - a hit like the OP took isn't going to just fade away.

 

It is far more probable that a financially injured party would be motivated to keep tabs on that book, and being this is a key and the way this JIM can be identified from a line-up, the probability the book reappeared in a blue label was always there.

 

Rare circumstance or not, you take the book off the market to fix it so that scenario never has a chance to play out.

[MatterEaterLad]

THIS is an example of the human tendency to not admit you were wrong. THIS needs to be shouted from the rooftops. THIS is completely unacceptable, CGC. THIS is WRONG WRONG WRONG.

 

 

+1000

 

 

 

[NinjaSealed]

I really want to know about this last submitter. It would take a pair to submit the book thinking it had a shot at a blue label.

[Johnny U]

This is just getting crazy. I can't wait to hear from CGC.

[NinjaSealed]

That's a valid point to raise. However I'm also inclined to think CGC wouldn't overturn their decision at that point in time, and it was far more important to them to "keep appearances" than actually do something to deal with the situation with the necessary corrective action and seriousness it deserved.

 

The fact the book came back blue is crystal clear indication of this.

 

The point that I kept insisting, but quickly realized, just couldn't be emphasized without the benefit of hindsight - a hit like the OP took isn't going to just fade away.

 

It is far more probable that a financially injured party would be motivated to keep tabs on that book, and being this is a key and the way this JIM can be identified from a line-up, the probability the book reappeared in a blue label was always there.

 

Rare or not, you take the book off the market to fix it so that scenario never has a chance to play out.

 

Just a very very large on their part.

Edited March 31, 2014 by NinjaSealed

[Bills Comics]

That's a valid point to raise. However I'm also inclined to think CGC wouldn't overturn their decision at that point in time, and it was far more important to them to "keep appearances" than actually do something to deal with the situation with the necessary corrective action and seriousness it deserved.

 

The fact the book came back blue is crystal clear indication of this.

 

The point that I kept insisting, but quickly realized, just couldn't be emphasized without the benefit of hindsight - a hit like the OP took isn't going to just fade away.

 

It is far more probable that a financially injured party would be motivated to keep tabs on that book, and being this is a key and the way this JIM can be identified from a line-up, the probability the book reappeared in a blue label was always there.

 

Rare or not, you take the book off the market to fix it so that scenario never has a chance to play out.

 

Just a very very large on their part.

 

Just curious how you " take it off the market ".

The only permanent way for that to be done is to have CGC buy it, make restitution to the players involved and destroy the book . Im not for destroying any comic , EVER .

If not this, then one day it would re enter the market and have some prominence .

[bushwood]

its funny how people act so surprised. I remember reading these boards years ago during the whole PGX vs CGC debates. As much as people like to talk about how PGX is "just some guy in his garage", CGC is still just "a bunch of guys"

 

people make mistakes, and there are TONS of things that scream unprofessional about the way CGC operates.

 

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

Until all graders notes are free and public, and the grading standards are available free and public, the whole thing is laughable.

 

They use the fact that everybody is making money, to fight off any need for accountability. They need to hire a lot more graders, hire a lot more software engineers (for the registry and this site), hire paid moderators for the board.

 

Then they might stop being "a bunch of guys" who rent a bigger garage, in a commercial area...

 

Absolutely dead on with your comments.

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

Bottom line, don't expect perfection. Doctors make mistakes, lawyers make mistakes, presidents make mistakes. People. Make. Mistakes. We get over it, and move on. It WILL happen again. Part of life.

 

 

Bottom line, when those people make mistakes, people may die. I sure as hell wouldn't want anything less than perfection from them if I had to depend on their opinion. Why settle for less? The doctors and lawyers are certainly liable for their mistakes. Even the president has to answer to congress.

 

Of course, people don't die because of a CGC mistake. But it may cost you money. Even though they may be human, would you settle for less with your comics? Are you willing to suffer a financial loss because of their error? I don't think so.

 

Of course no one wants to be the guy who got screwed. But, we all get the shaft on occasion. If one says they don't, they're either a liar or a fool, maybe both. You may not want anything less than perfection, but how often to you get it, and how often do you settle for less?

 

My point is, this does not mean CGC can't be trusted, or is now "bad." It means they blew it. Here, and most likely many others. No business is perfect. There never has been one, never will be one. I'm not being a CGC apologist. They need to do better at fixing these things. I'm sure someone is reading this from them now. Tighten up the ship. New procedures in place. Better training. More staff. Whatever. Get better.

[comicwiz]

That's a valid point to raise. However I'm also inclined to think CGC wouldn't overturn their decision at that point in time, and it was far more important to them to "keep appearances" than actually do something to deal with the situation with the necessary corrective action and seriousness it deserved.

 

The fact the book came back blue is crystal clear indication of this.

 

The point that I kept insisting, but quickly realized, just couldn't be emphasized without the benefit of hindsight - a hit like the OP took isn't going to just fade away.

 

It is far more probable that a financially injured party would be motivated to keep tabs on that book, and being this is a key and the way this JIM can be identified from a line-up, the probability the book reappeared in a blue label was always there.

 

Rare or not, you take the book off the market to fix it so that scenario never has a chance to play out.

 

Just a very very large on their part.

 

Just curious how you " take it off the market ".

The only permanent way for that to be done is to have CGC buy it, make restitution to the players involved and destroy the book . Im not for destroying any comic , EVER .

If not this, then one day it would re enter the market and have some prominence .

 

All these things, but mostly the part about restoring the injured party in whole. Coin graders have had to do this. They also use nice words like"retiring" to soften the blow on their mistakes. It becomes an item taken off the market, ending up in a collection with no intent to liquidate. A good insurance policy is threads like this to make sure if it were to reemerge, the collecting community would be able to ID it.

[Ogami]

Wow. Just wow.

[MatterEaterLad]

This was originally my book, purchased in the 1st 6.0 slab 5+ years ago.

The book was part of a deal between Dan and I. I was as shocked as anybody about the PLOD but Dan didn't blame me and I remained stealth.

The deal between Dan and I had it's share of drama anyway and I had nothing to add.

This is definitely the same book. The book had a vertical reader's crease, near the spine, that ran practically the full length of the book. I remember showing the book to Matt years ago and he said the book could not be improved and had just as much chance as coming back a 5.5 as a 6.5 = he advised against a resub. I guess he was correct on that call.

I have nothing concrete to add to this situation but I do have one BIG question. Why would the new owner resub this book, especially in a Walkthrough tier? Surely he did not expect this outcome. Did he expect a higher grade ? I thought the 7.0, for a book length crease, was generous.

Something seems funny here. I suspect if we knew the identity of the new owner we may be even more upset.

 

 

1) Their head grader should be fired. Seriously. I have no faith in CGC anymore.

 

2) They should be independently audited. A number of books should be cracked and resubbed annually to give us a sense of how consistent and accurate their grading is. I've been tempted to resub 50 books myself, just to get a sense if I should ever use them again.

 

3) If they're going to assign a numeric (quantitative grade) they shouldn't have a qualitative grading system (where a human is looking at a book and making a guess based on his "experience.") There should be a system/guide that the grader references.

 

 

 

 

[MatterEaterLad]

its funny how people act so surprised. I remember reading these boards years ago during the whole PGX vs CGC debates. As much as people like to talk about how PGX is "just some guy in his garage", CGC is still just "a bunch of guys"

 

people make mistakes, and there are TONS of things that scream unprofessional about the way CGC operates.

 

The real crime here, isnt that people missed trimming TWICE, since the books been subbed three times, and only came back purple once. It's the fact that they are so admant about not making things right or admitting the error the first time.

 

Until all graders notes are free and public, and the grading standards are available free and public, the whole thing is laughable.

 

They use the fact that everybody is making money, to fight off any need for accountability. They need to hire a lot more graders, hire a lot more software engineers (for the registry and this site), hire paid moderators for the board.

 

Then they might stop being "a bunch of guys" who rent a bigger garage, in a commercial area...

 

Absolutely dead on with your comments.

 

 

I've resubbed a PLOD FF#1 that came back with variations in restoration each time. Graders notes sometimes just show how flaky the grading can be.

[TheAvenger80]

Has anyone noted that the page quality designation changed as well!?

 

[Red_Hood]

This was originally my book, purchased in the 1st 6.0 slab 5+ years ago.

The book was part of a deal between Dan and I. I was as shocked as anybody about the PLOD but Dan didn't blame me and I remained stealth.

The deal between Dan and I had it's share of drama anyway and I had nothing to add.

This is definitely the same book. The book had a vertical reader's crease, near the spine, that ran practically the full length of the book. I remember showing the book to Matt years ago and he said the book could not be improved and had just as much chance as coming back a 5.5 as a 6.5 = he advised against a resub. I guess he was correct on that call.

I have nothing concrete to add to this situation but I do have one BIG question. Why would the new owner resub this book, especially in a Walkthrough tier? Surely he did not expect this outcome. Did he expect a higher grade ? I thought the 7.0, for a book length crease, was generous.

Something seems funny here. I suspect if we knew the identity of the new owner we may be even more upset.

 

Your last sentence is exactly where the focus should be

 

Logically, the individual would do a walk through service so that it's rushed and the service obligation is met for customer service sake. The person who bought it has nothing to lose, it's low risk to resubmit a restored book that was previously universal, and factor the turnaround time service obligation and you have a "quick glance" based on the volume business model.

 

Flippers, make note of the serial number so you don't buy it, try to press it and resubmit it in a slower turnaround service tier.

[Fantastic Thor]

This is the first time I have read a 16 page thread !