ComicConnect Event Auction!

[MagicMasonry-migration]

People were saying $20K on the restored Sup 1; I was saying $32K. Currently at $33.8K.

 

A 7.5 EP went for 33k last year and a 6.5 EP for 25k, so 20k doesn't make sense. I could see this 7.0 MP easily hitting 40k this year.

 

So again, how on earth did a 3.0 Mod Pep 22 get more than all that, with Sup 1 being a much more popular title? Incidently, 48,500 is approximately the amount I expected the book to sell for when I first thought it was Universal, that is afterall, an accurate price for a 3.0 blue.

 

Now if we see this Sup 1 go up to 70-80K or something similarly crazy I think it will be obvious something is rotten in Denmark. Not to say there isn't even if it doesn't.

[lpsunburst]

People were saying $20K on the restored Sup 1; I was saying $32K. Currently at $33.8K.

 

I was hoping! My top bid got left behind about 10k ago but its an extremely well presented book. I would have been ecstatic to have gotten it for under 25K.

[Big Moov]

I thought the $27,000 for the Flash ashcan was a strong price. It's now a top 10 ashcan. The buyer knew quality and paid for it. How much did you think it would sell for?

 

Top 10 ashcan?? I consider the Flash/Thrill Captain Marvel ashcan to CLEARLY be the #1 ashcan.

 

I don't base my opinions strictly on previous sales numbers. Because those change; books often skyrocket. I thought this might be one of those books. I thought it would skyrocket like the Whiz #2 6.0 did....if not more. I realized that ashcans aren't en vogue yet, so I wasn't necessarily expecting a huge price. But I thought it would be a lot better. In the future I'm sure it will.

 

This ashcan is #1 because it's the only one to feature the first appearance of a character....let-alone a mega-key character. Plus it's directly linked to Whiz #2, solving the mystery of the missing #1 issue. Plus it has original Captain Marvel art on the cover. Sure the Action 1 ashcan trademarked the name 'Action'. But that's not ultra-interesting to me. If it had Superman in it, THEN WE'RE TALKING. But it doesn't. Flash/Thrill is the only ashcan of mega-interest in my opinion.

 

No offense, but I don't understand why people don't see this. I think when it comes to comics, 2 people can look at the same thing and see completely different things.

[Dark Knight]

Wow. $22k for a 0.5 Tec 31 and only $36k for a Tec 33, 6.5.

 

Something definitely seems more than a little out of whack about that, and 33 certainly seems severely under-valued in relation at this point.

 

-J.

 

..... Same here...... Tec 33 just seems to have a lot to offer....and it's an Uber-Cool book (...to me) GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Totally agree.

 

+1. The tec 33 was a deal

 

...and yet this restored 1.0 is up to over $11k on ebay with three days to go....

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detective-Comics-33-DC-Comics-Golden-Age-1939-Origin-of-Batman-CGC-1-0-/191542299735?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c98cf8c57

 

-J.

 

and the bid retractions have begun. shocker ! Seriously, 11k for a fugly 1.0mp

 

Did you guys even see the retractors max bid!?! His max was $55,555 Obvious shill?

[Jaydogrules]

Wow. $22k for a 0.5 Tec 31 and only $36k for a Tec 33, 6.5.

 

Something definitely seems more than a little out of whack about that, and 33 certainly seems severely under-valued in relation at this point.

 

-J.

 

..... Same here...... Tec 33 just seems to have a lot to offer....and it's an Uber-Cool book (...to me) GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Totally agree.

 

+1. The tec 33 was a deal

 

...and yet this restored 1.0 is up to over $11k on ebay with three days to go....

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Detective-Comics-33-DC-Comics-Golden-Age-1939-Origin-of-Batman-CGC-1-0-/191542299735?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c98cf8c57

 

-J.

 

and the bid retractions have begun. shocker ! Seriously, 11k for a fugly 1.0mp

 

Did you guys even see the retractors max bid!?! His max was $55,555 Obvious shill?

 

That dude put in a ridiculous bid to ferret out the under bidder's top bid. So now everyone knows what the current high bidder is willing to pay.

 

-J.

[Jaydogrules]

Comicconnect deals with buyers from all over the world. It's conceivable a foreign collector could overlook the resto info on the label, no? The seller needs to keep his fingers crossed the buyer doesn't use their return policy or chicken out. It's a long couple weeks I tell ya.

 

Not only that but why did CBCS make it a point to use the colour blue at all? That colour has been associated with UNIVERSAL GRADE for 15 years. They could have used any other colour yet they chose that one. If they wanted to have "one label for all books" (even though, hypocritically enough, that is in fact *not* what they have) why not use pink or lime, or hell, just white, or literally any other colour and throw all your books in that holder with micro print that gives prospective buyers a headache when they try to read the label that tells them what kind of book they're *really* getting ?

 

But they didn't do that. They used the colour blue. Their reasons for doing so are both obvious and disconcerting.

 

-J.

It's a great niche for CBCS. They'll become the company specializing in slabbing restored books.

 

Everyone with a CGC PLOD can now rush to crack their books out and resub to CBCS and get a BLOD and get a huge return on their investment immediately. It's basically what all the PLOD owners have been jonesing for for years.

 

It's the best new comic arbitrage opportunity since cracking and pressing 10 years ago.

 

The PLOD provides opportunities as much as anything else. I've seen (and had) books that were PLOD when sold, then saw the resto was removed and the book sold for much more.

 

There is no perfect answer, because we can't go back in time and forego the colored labels in the first place, which would have been the best thing.

 

I agree with the poster who said it's not logical to think people will spend thousands on a book without reading the label and seeing it's got some work done to it.

 

But I can agree that somebody who doesn't know the difference between CGC and CBCS might confuse the two and think the lack of a purple label means no resto. They might see only the big number. (but then, I am not a fan of making the grade number the biggest damn thing on the label in the first place)

 

Because of that, I would expect that people might offer buyers a chance to back out if they can reasonably say they didn't understand the difference between the two companies. Key word there is "reasonably." I would not be surprised to hear that ill-intentioned people pretended they didn't know, and I would be surprised if we do not hear of people contacting the buyersof restored CBCS books and talking them into demanding refunds out of a pure desire to cause trouble.

 

The real problem is not that one company has colored labels and the other doesn't, or that any company is being "deceptive," but that the colored labels were a bad idea in the first place and have caused large variations in price that bear little relation to rational thinking

 

While they are not the best examples of skewed valuations, the Supe 1s being offered tonight are a decent case in point. One is a moderate restored 7.0 and the other is a trashed looking unrestored book. Knowing what I do about what what constitutes moderation resto it is entirely possible and actually quite likely that the restored 7.0 started off looking much better than the unrestored book. Add to that the vast difference in eye appeal between the books (huge stains in the unrestored) and it's clear that the eye appeal of the restored book also started off much better than the other. And then realized that it's also likely that if you added all the defects together -- counting the resto as ADDITIONAL defects, the total defects in the mod restored 7.0 would be fewer than the defects in the unrestored book. Yet, the blue label book, last time I checked, had bids several times that of the other book.

 

That is skewed and strange, and it does not reflect well on the hobby. It's a good idea to try to change it, somehow. Which is why CGC made some efforts to address it with the conserved label,

 

I agree with many of your points. However a restored book should not "look" like an un - restored book once it had been slabbed. We cannot inspect these things ourselves once they're entombed and it should be readily apparent (no pun intended) when a book that is slabbed has been restored. It should be easy and obvious to see even the most novice of collector. It is clear that that is not the goal of CBCS's labeling system.

 

CBCS is 15 years late to the comic grading and slabbing game. And they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to kow-tow to the restored comic book collector and seller by making his book look like an un-restored book in their slabs. Yet they also want to cash in on the established blue label universal grade colour identifying system that CGC has used for a decade and half.

 

I'm not saying they are being "deceptive", but I do think their system has a stink to it. Not the same kind of stink as PGX. But a fairly pungent reek in its own right. Needless to say, you can count me in the camp that would never buy one of their slabs.

 

-J.

[G.A.tor]

I thought the $27,000 for the Flash ashcan was a strong price. It's now a top 10 ashcan. The buyer knew quality and paid for it. How much did you think it would sell for?

 

Top 10 ashcan?? I consider the Flash/Thrill Captain Marvel ashcan to CLEARLY be the #1 ashcan.

 

I don't base by opinions strictly on previous sales numbers. Because those change; books often skyrocket. I thought this might be one of those books. I thought it would skyrocket like the Whiz #2 6.0 did....if not more. I realized that ashcans aren't en vogue yet, so I wasn't necessarily expecting a huge price. But I thought it would be a lot better. In the future I'm sure it will.

 

This ashcan is #1 because it's the only one to feature the first appearance of a character....let-alone a mega-key character. Plus it's directly linked to Whiz #2, solving the mystery of the missing #1 issue. Plus it has original Captain Marvel art on the cover. Sure the Action 1 ashcan trademarked the name 'Action'. But that's not ultra-interesting to me. If it had Superman in it, THEN WE'RE TALKING. But it doesn't. Flash/Thrill is the only ashcan of mega-interest in my opinion.

 

No offense, but I don't understand why people don't see this. I think when it comes to comics, 2 people can look at the same thing and see completely different things.

nothing personal, but Gary (moondog) IS the authority on Ashcans... his word/opinion carries more weight than everyone else's combined, imo... I don't pretend to understand the appeal, as I don't see it, but I respect what Gary's says and take it as absolute truth...

 

 

[bluechip]

People were saying $20K on the restored Sup 1; I was saying $32K. Currently at $33.8K.

 

A 7.5 EP went for 33k last year and a 6.5 EP for 25k, so 20k doesn't make sense. I could see this 7.0 MP easily hitting 40k this year.

 

So again, how on earth did a 3.0 Mod Pep 22 get more than all that, with Sup 1 being a much more popular title? Incidently, 48,500 is approximately the amount I expected the book to sell for when I first thought it was Universal, that is afterall, an accurate price for a 3.0 blue.

 

Now if we see this Sup 1 go up to 70-80K or something similarly crazy I think it will be obvious something is rotten in Denmark. Not to say there isn't even if it doesn't.

 

I have no interest in either of those books aside from the curiosity that comes from having sold similar books fairly recently for much less (and the Supe 1 being called restored when I sold it but ending up magically in a blue label later).

 

But if you want divergent prices on a book Supe 1 values are a good place to look. I see head-shaking bargains go from time to time, and then irrationally high prices another time. Much of it I think may be due to people who enter the hobby to pick up one or two books only and target a Superman 1

 

As to the results for books with slight resto that aren't in purple labels, I would expect that some buyers out there are fully aware of what they're buying and believe that the lack of a purple label on the book means the pricing bizarreness on books with slight resto will be mitigated and they're hedging bets on just how much they will increase.

 

That said, it's possible that somebody doesn't know the difference between CGC and CBCS in regard to the labeling, but it won't be long before that is not a valid excuse. People buy Supe 1s without realizing that Action 1 came first, and we don't put Supe 1s in colored labels to warn them it's not the first appearance. At some point, you have to tell people with six figures to blow that it's up to them to accumulate the information and to recognize when the information comes with agendas such "don't buy that book (which I don't have to sell you), but instead buy this book (which I do have for sale)."

 

I would have no problem if the giant 3.0 grade on a restored book was replaced with a number that reflects the actual grade of the book, considering the resto as defects and not improvements. (i.e. the tear is counted as a tear, even though it's sealed, and the sealant is counted as an additional defect). And maybe that's how they do it; I don't know. Maybe that 3.0 would've been graded as an apparent 5.0 if the resto was not considered a defect. So it would be helpful to know what the standards are, because that would better enable folks to know the true condition of the book*

 

(*and, no, the "true condition" does not include an assessment or condemnation of the thought process behind everything that's happened to the book)

 

 

[Sqeggs]

$52 K on the restored Superman 1 7.0.

[Moondog]

I thought the $27,000 for the Flash ashcan was a strong price. It's now a top 10 ashcan. The buyer knew quality and paid for it. How much did you think it would sell for?

 

Top 10 ashcan?? I consider the Flash/Thrill Captain Marvel ashcan to CLEARLY be the #1 ashcan.

 

I don't base by opinions strictly on previous sales numbers. Because those change; books often skyrocket. I thought this might be one of those books. I thought it would skyrocket like the Whiz #2 6.0 did....if not more. I realized that ashcans aren't en vogue yet, so I wasn't necessarily expecting a huge price. But I thought it would be a lot better. In the future I'm sure it will.

 

This ashcan is #1 because it's the only one to feature the first appearance of a character....let-alone a mega-key character. Plus it's directly linked to Whiz #2, solving the mystery of the missing #1 issue. Plus it has original Captain Marvel art on the cover. Sure the Action 1 ashcan trademarked the name 'Action'. But that's not ultra-interesting to me. If it had Superman in it, THEN WE'RE TALKING. But it doesn't. Flash/Thrill is the only ashcan of mega-interest in my opinion.

 

No offense, but I don't understand why people don't see this. I think when it comes to comics, 2 people can look at the same thing and see completely different things.

 

Stephen Fishler agrees with you - at least he did in 1986 when he and I first discussed which were the most important ashcans. Flash/Thrill ashcans are very cool and certainly historically important, but because they were created by Fawcett they haven't attained the stature of the top DC ashcans (Action Comics, Action Funnies, Double Action, Superman, Wonder Woman, All Star, Superboy, Superwoman, Supergirl, and Flash). These characters and titles form the foundation for the hobby we love as well as the billions of dollars of commerce they've generated over the past 75 years.

 

The Lone Ranger ashcan just sold for $7,500 or so last week. I can argue that the Lone Ranger is as important (more important?) within our popular culture as Captain Marvel. Yet his first appearance ever in print brings less than $10,000?

 

We all love these wonderful characters and books, but out-of-sight/out-of-mind often is the determining factor when considering value. Your MF 73 is a perfect example. Aquaman and Green Arrow were always second-tier characters, but now with all the movie hype, a new generation of fans will be introduced to them on the big screen (at the theatre and in their homes) and will embrace them as their own. You will benefit handsomely because of this new found interest.

 

Just assuming something will be valuable (based on whatever criteria one comes up with) won't necessarily make it happen.

 

And congrats on owning that MF 73. I've always loved that book!

 

 

[Dark Knight]

$52 K on the restored Superman 1 7.0.

 

Mama Mia The 2.5 didn't quite do so well considering a 2.0 sold for around $81k earlier this year, but still a respectable sale price.

[MagicMasonry-migration]

Wow, so the Sup 1 7.0MP definitely did better beyond what anyone though it would do. 52,000, that's 7.5k a point, and it barely eeked past the Pep 22 3.0 with the same amount of resto at 16k a point. Again, I wonder what the Sup 1 would have done if it was purple. I guess we'll never know, or until the next purple comes to market that is.

[jimjum12]

 

(*and, no, the "true condition" does not include an assessment or condemnation of the thought process behind everything that's happened to the book)

 

 

.....you are SO going on my Christmas Card list...... that's so quotable ...... GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

 

..... just to clarify.... in case someone may not know..... the "other" company is run by CGC's Daddy, Steve Borock, as decent and honest a person as there is..... CGC wouldn't be what it is today without his contribution..... really.

[MagicMasonry-migration]

$52 K on the restored Superman 1 7.0.

 

Mama Mia The 2.5 didn't quite do so well considering a 2.0 sold for around $81k earlier this year, but still a respectable sale price.

 

It's a good price, that 2.0 for 81 had nicer appeal, the 2.5 has huge stains on front cover.

[Superman2006]

$52 K on the restored Superman 1 7.0.

 

Mama Mia The 2.5 didn't quite do so well considering a 2.0 sold for around $81k earlier this year, but still a respectable sale price.

 

It's a good price, that 2.0 for 81 had nicer appeal, the 2.5 has huge stains on front cover.

 

I was about to say the exact same thing! Buy the book, not the grade.

[Big Moov]

I thought the $27,000 for the Flash ashcan was a strong price. It's now a top 10 ashcan. The buyer knew quality and paid for it. How much did you think it would sell for?

 

Top 10 ashcan?? I consider the Flash/Thrill Captain Marvel ashcan to CLEARLY be the #1 ashcan.

 

I don't base by opinions strictly on previous sales numbers. Because those change; books often skyrocket. I thought this might be one of those books. I thought it would skyrocket like the Whiz #2 6.0 did....if not more. I realized that ashcans aren't en vogue yet, so I wasn't necessarily expecting a huge price. But I thought it would be a lot better. In the future I'm sure it will.

 

This ashcan is #1 because it's the only one to feature the first appearance of a character....let-alone a mega-key character. Plus it's directly linked to Whiz #2, solving the mystery of the missing #1 issue. Plus it has original Captain Marvel art on the cover. Sure the Action 1 ashcan trademarked the name 'Action'. But that's not ultra-interesting to me. If it had Superman in it, THEN WE'RE TALKING. But it doesn't. Flash/Thrill is the only ashcan of mega-interest in my opinion.

 

No offense, but I don't understand why people don't see this. I think when it comes to comics, 2 people can look at the same thing and see completely different things.

nothing personal, but Gary (moondog) IS the authority on Ashcans... his word/opinion carries more weight than everyone else's combined, imo... I don't pretend to understand the appeal, as I don't see it, but I respect what Gary's says and take it as absolute truth...

 

 

No offense taken. But there's no such thing as an "authority" or an "absolute truth" on something like this. Do you know who the Beard Of Knowledge is on Pawn Stars? He's the smartest guy who knows everything about historical items. But guess what - he never prices them. Because he knows that his OPINION isn't necessarily better than anyone else's. If him or Moondog or anyone knew for "absolute truth" what all the values were, they'd be the richest men in the world. Because everything they would buy would skyrocket in value. I admit when I'm wrong; I'll eat crow....but I've been right big-time on several occasions too.

 

So instead of saying a lot of other ashcans are better, I would appreciate a reason. We might disagree, but I might learn something....and it's interesting if nothing else.

 

Now....the one thing that could shatter my opinion is if Moondog or someone has inside-information on things that are not made public. Like unknown ashcans. Or unknown census data. I'd really like to hear about that, even in a private message .

[Big Moov]

Stephen Fishler agrees with you - at least he did in 1986 when he and I first discussed which were the most important ashcans. Flash/Thrill ashcans are very cool and certainly historically important, but because they were created by Fawcett they haven't attained the stature of the top DC ashcans (Action Comics, Action Funnies, Double Action, Superman, Wonder Woman, All Star, Superboy, Superwoman, Supergirl, and Flash). These characters and titles form the foundation for the hobby we love as well as the billions of dollars of commerce they've generated over the past 75 years.

 

The Lone Ranger ashcan just sold for $7,500 or so last week. I can argue that the Lone Ranger is as important (more important?) within our popular culture as Captain Marvel. Yet his first appearance ever in print brings less than $10,000?

 

We all love these wonderful characters and books, but out-of-sight/out-of-mind often is the determining factor when considering value. Your MF 73 is a perfect example. Aquaman and Green Arrow were always second-tier characters, but now with all the movie hype, a new generation of fans will be introduced to them on the big screen (at the theatre and in their homes) and will embrace them as their own. You will benefit handsomely because of this new found interest.

 

Just assuming something will be valuable (based on whatever criteria one comes up with) won't necessarily make it happen.

 

And congrats on owning that MF 73. I've always loved that book!

 

 

Oh thanks Moondog. Gator and I were just talking about you . Question for you....I agree that those other ashcans come from stronger overall companies and stuff than Fawcett....but those ashcans are significant for starting the titles, correct? None of them have the actual characters in it, right? At least not new material that hadn't been printed yet. No new characters or first appearances, correct? Maybe I hold that in too much regard, as that happens to be my preference for collecting. But there you have it - that's my reasoning. Is there anything in particular about any of those ashcans that stands-out in your opinion?

 

The Lone Ranger had appeared before in other media, right?

 

By the way, I'm not overly new to the hobby . I sold all my coins and sports-cards and switched to comics somewhere around the year 2000.

[Sqeggs]

That Superman 15 is a nice book. Congrats to whoever picked it up.

[markseifert]

Stephen Fishler agrees with you - at least he did in 1986 when he and I first discussed which were the most important ashcans. Flash/Thrill ashcans are very cool and certainly historically important, but because they were created by Fawcett they haven't attained the stature of the top DC ashcans (Action Comics, Action Funnies, Double Action, Superman, Wonder Woman, All Star, Superboy, Superwoman, Supergirl, and Flash). These characters and titles form the foundation for the hobby we love as well as the billions of dollars of commerce they've generated over the past 75 years.

 

Gary -- Trademark and court records suggest there was a pre-Action Superman ashcan and also that there may have been a Detective ashcan.

 

Did you ever get any whiff of those in your searches and research over the years?

 

 

[Skhambati]

Do you think the non cgc grading on the superman 1 put it lower? I also agree the cgc 2.0 did look much better.