Unpopular Golden Age Opinions Thread! 10 10

[Dr. Love]

On 7/22/2023 at 1:33 PM, ThothAmon said:

 

Prior to Gaines unveiling his 12 or so pristine copies of EVERY EC Comic published from 1951-1955 a collector who actually acquired his copies by diligence and patience was happy to have them in mid grade or better, and they were highly sought after with ever increasing prices realized. That all changed when Gaines brought forth his books that had never experienced the newsstand crucible. Collecting went out the door. 

There were file copies prior to '51 - Picture Stories for example.  And no explanation was ever sought (!) by those avid collectors Overstreet and Cochran or given as to the absolute lack of copies for the three romance titles - Modern Love, Moon, A Girl...Romance, and Saddle Romances.  15 issues.  Nada.

If pressed, I'd say it reflects Gaines' disdain for the romance genre - and the unprecedented money grab it represented by all publishers in 1949-1950.  In an industry where imitation was not only business as usual, but the business model itself.  So clearly shown by the "farewell" mocking story in the last issue of EC's three title romance run, Modern Love #8, "The Love Story to End ALL Love Stories!".

[Cat-Man_America]

On 7/23/2023 at 4:10 PM, Dr. Love said:

There were file copies prior to '51 - Picture Stories for example.  And no explanation was ever sought (!) by those avid collectors Overstreet and Cochran or given as to the absolute lack of copies for the three romance titles - Modern Love, Moon, A Girl...Romance, and Saddle Romances.  15 issues.  Nada.

If pressed, I'd say it reflects Gaines' disdain for the romance genre - and the unprecedented money grab it represented by all publishers in 1949-1950.  In an industry where imitation was not only business as usual, but the business model itself.  So clearly shown by the "farewell" mocking story in the last issue of EC's three title romance run, Modern Love #8, "The Love Story to End ALL Love Stories!".

That's priceless! ...Love Greasin (Lev Gleason with Parlay Diro under Tips ...Charles Biro?), Mr. Wolf (V. W. - Victor Fox), Arnold Harvey Hermann (looks like a take off on Alfred Harvey; maybe a mash-up with "Busy" Arnold and someone else), T. Tot doesn't fit Gaines or Feldstein, but the character or situation might be an in-joke for something or someone else!   

[Duffman_Comics]

Tiny Tot Comics was a very early E.C. title.

"Your First Comic Book".

[Frisco Larson]

My recollection of when the Gaines EC File Copies came to market was that the collectors who were currently holding the majority of high-grade ECs prior to the release of the Gaines copies were the ones who felt the biggest impact. Now their books were largely well below the nicest in existence, and therefore probably worth less than they had been previously. That's what I remember hearing. I wasn't collecting ECs so I was on the sidelines. 

[Robot Man]

I think it was wonderful that Gaines put away numerous high grade copies. It wasn’t done for financial gain because at the time, comics were just worthless throw away publications. It was done as an archive for his company.

Even more brilliant was keeping all the original art. No one did this. My guess was that if he owned it, he wouldn’t have to pay any royalties if he had decided to use it again. It was of course eventually used to produce the Cochran EC books and comics. And he graciously seeked out the creators and gave them royalties on it. And all of us were given the opportunity to own a one of a kind piece of EC history.

Did the file copies affect the value of the owners of HG copies years later? Probably, but it also leveled the playing field a bit allowing more collectors access to HG copies.

I remember when Russ offered them to collectors. I was a little late to the party getting the list a little after many other folks. By that time, most of the better ones were already gone. They wern’t exactly cheap at the time either. I was able to grab only two. I didn’t care as much about the grade but more to have a historical piece of EC material. I was very happy to get them.

Shortly, there after, CGC came along and most were certified. I remember a certain board member that rarely posts here anymore, getting his MAD #1 back and splashing it around here at 9.8. Pretty soon another 9.8 came out. The guy was so upset that his wasn’t the only highest grade copy that he dumped it.

Gaines was the most visionary publisher in the history of comics and I thank him for it! 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Robot Man

[fifties]

Here are the original prices for the GFC's; too rich for my blood in 1990.

[N e r V]

On 7/22/2023 at 9:02 AM, ThothAmon said:

The Gaines File copies ruined collecting ECs. Thank goodness for collectors everywhere other publishers didn’t do this. 

Don’t know if I’d use the word ruined but it certainly “weirded out” the idea of what a pedigree was or could be. If he had kept just one or so high grade copy of each the collection would be viewed pretty much like a mile high type pedigree just focused on one publisher. Having a dozen copies of each in such high grade was something very different. Can you imagine if there were 12 Mile High Action #1 or Detective #27 or Marvel #1 from a single pedigree collection? Now imagine 12 copies of each in a high grade run of a title of each issue from a single pedigree collection. I do think although they became grails to the EC collector having 12 each probably radically reduced their value each if Gaines had instead only kept 1 or 2 copies each. I’ve seen a ton of them over the years. Very pretty but you’ve got 12 chances to own one vs the usual one or two (maybe) in most pedigrees.

[jimbo_7071]

On 7/25/2023 at 12:45 AM, N e r V said:

Don’t know if I’d use the word ruined but it certainly “weirded out” the idea of what a pedigree was or could be. If he had kept just one or so high grade copy of each the collection would be viewed pretty much like a mile high type pedigree just focused on one publisher. Having a dozen copies of each in such high grade was something very different. Can you imagine if there were 12 Mile High Action #1 or Detective #27 or Marvel #1 from a single pedigree collection? Now imagine 12 copies of each in a high grade run of a title of each issue from a single pedigree collection. I do think although they became grails to the EC collector having 12 each probably radically reduced their value each if Gaines had instead only kept 1 or 2 copies each. I’ve seen a ton of them over the years. Very pretty but you’ve got 12 chances to own one vs the usual one or two (maybe) in most pedigrees.

To me, it just made E.C.s a slightly lower priority because they're that much easier to find in high grade. I'd still like to pick up some high-grade copies of my favorite issues. If I see a book that's a little tougher to find in grade, then I'll usually go after that one instead.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

L.B. Cole.

theres an urgency and a primal feel to his covers, which I find irresistible. Mask 1 and 2 are my favorites, but there’s many more . . .
 

But I think his human anatomy skills and sense of perspective are poor. 

there. I said it

bring on your torches and pitchforks 

[Point Five]

On 7/4/2024 at 5:16 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

L.B. Cole.

theres an urgency and a primal feel to his covers, which I find irresistible. Mask 1 and 2 are my favorites, but there’s many more . . .
 

But I think his human anatomy skills and sense of perspective are poor. 

there. I said it

bring on your torches and pitchforks 

I'm a big fan of LB Cole but I don't really have an issue with those statements. That's valid.

He obviously conceptualized and *drew* all those bajillion covers -- that's not nothing -- but I'd say his brilliance lies in being something more like a poster designer or collage artist than e.g. a Baker-type artist.

 

[LadyDeath]

Cole has grown on me. I commend his versatility.

Trippy horror, superhero, sports, romance, war, crime, cartoons, holiday covers. Dude did every genre imaginable.

Edited July 4 by LadyDeath

[Dr. Love]

Here's one that could be dismissed as utterly absurd, much less unpopular.

The ranking of influential artists must consider their acumen as businessmen or women.  Kirby plummets. Cole ascends. Eisner tops them all.

[Professor K]

On 7/4/2024 at 5:16 PM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

L.B. Cole.

theres an urgency and a primal feel to his covers, which I find irresistible. Mask 1 and 2 are my favorites, but there’s many more . . .
 

But I think his human anatomy skills and sense of perspective are poor. 

there. I said it

bring on your torches and pitchforks 

People don't seem to defend Cole to a high level of defensiveness. Say something negative about Shomburg however, and you'll get some grief. 

[Ryan.]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:08 PM, Professor K said:

People don't seem to defend Cole to a high level of defensiveness. Say something negative about Shomburg however, and you'll get some grief. 

I think we Cole loyalists recognize that his goal was to grab the newsstand viewer's eye, not perfectly draft every illustration. 

[LadyDeath]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:08 PM, Professor K said:

Say something negative about Shomburg however, and you'll get some grief. 

I'm a big Schomburg fan but he could be one dimensional. Still, a master of depicting chaotic action with a slight comedic undertone.

[Hepcat]

I don't like the whole concept of superheroes going to war. As a result I'm no fan of the vast majority of the covers that Alex Schomburg did for Timely.

Neither do I like the grisly horror comics that became popular after WWII ended. Yes, I like many of the EC artists - but not the subject matter.

 

Edited July 5 by Hepcat

[WolverineX]

On 7/4/2024 at 5:53 PM, LadyDeath said:

Cole has grown on me. I commend his versatility.

Trippy horror, superhero, sports, romance, war, crime, cartoons, holiday covers. Dude did every genre imaginable.

Not unpopular opinion.  He was pretty amazing.  

[LadyDeath]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:31 PM, Hepcat said:

I don't like the whole concept of superheroes going to war. As a result I'm no fan of the vast majority of the covers that Alex Schomburg did for Timely.

I actually like his post-war covers more, but not for those reasons. More simpler in their clean design but still kept his trademarks.

[Professor K]

On 7/4/2024 at 6:31 PM, Hepcat said:

I don't like the whole concept of superheroes going to war. As a result I'm no fan of the vast majority of the covers that Alex Schomburg did for Timely.

Neither do I like the grisly horror comics that became popular after WWII ended. Yes, I like many of the EC artists - but not the subject matter.

 

What do you like Hepcat? Cool name by the way. I feel the same in a way. It's all history now and there were some great covers of superheroes fighting the Axis forces. Like tons of great covers. But most publishers went overboard with it. It may have been kind of lazy also. Things were going well, Crime Stories, Science Fiction , Superheroes fighting bad guys and gals.  Then bam 5 years of almost every publisher devoting almost every issue to fighting Nazi's, "Japs" and sometimes even Japanazis. And they really pushed it. Pretty much forced it on the consumer. Still they kept it fun. 

After the war though I feel they were just giving the people what they want. Interesting how it evolved. 

On 7/4/2024 at 6:50 PM, LadyDeath said:

I actually like his post-war covers more, but not for those reasons. More simpler in their clean design but still kept his trademarks.

Shomburg- I liked his early style the best. His very early Timely's are some of the best covers ever. 

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 7/4/2024 at 4:30 PM, Point Five said:

I'd say his brilliance lies in being something more like a poster designer or collage artist than e.g. a Baker-type artist.

Well said. Cole’s depictions of hell grab me by the lapels, and accordingly his covers will always resonate for me. But I collect him for a different reason than from why I collect Matt Baker.