MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[Gatsby77]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:23 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Except box office receipts wasn't my only criteria for a movie being a "hit". It's not really the industry's only criteria, either, otherwise Transformers Age of Extinction would be one of the greatest movie hits of all time. I also took in to account critic and fan reaction, critical and box office expectation vs the actual outcome, and how much the movie moved the pop culture needle for the positive i.e. its impact on audiences or how much it changed things artistically/industry-wise, etc.

How the f--- did this move the "pop culture needle" or change things artistically/industry-wise? 

It was an easily-forgotten popcorn flick that happened to feature some Asian characters.

Won't have any more of a lasting impact - even on MCU films - than Matt Damon's The Great Wall did.

[paperheart]

On 11/19/2021 at 11:28 AM, Gatsby77 said:

How the f--- did this move the "pop culture needle" or change things artistically/industry-wise? 

It was an easily-forgotten popcorn flick that happened to feature some Asian characters.

Won't have any more of a lasting impact - even on MCU films - than Matt Damon's The Great Wall did.

using this as a yardstick then BW was the biggest hit of the pandemic since it resulted in Feige becoming Scar-Jo's eunuch

[Bosco685]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:23 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Except box office receipts wasn't my only criteria for a movie being a "hit". It's not really the industry's only criteria, either, otherwise Transformers Age of Extinction would be one of the greatest movie hits of all time. I also took in to account critic and fan reaction, critical and box office expectation vs the actual outcome, and how much the movie moved the pop culture needle for the positive i.e. its impact on audiences or how much it changed things artistically/industry-wise, etc.

You mean your disclaimers was the audience and critic reaction metrics which are also your concern with Eternals and Rotten Tomatoes as a system as a whole?

Gotcha! More of the same twisting and turning based on the needs of your narrative.

[Bosco685]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:23 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

otherwise Transformers Age of Extinction would be one of the greatest movie hits of all time

Always see that Disney Accounting philosophy in action

[drotto]

We can cut out all the chatter.

 

Investors and movie companies only care about if the movie makes money, period.  They do not care if the movie is $#%@, or wonderful.  They do not care if critics or fans like or hated it.  If it made money, all is good.

Edited November 19, 2021 by drotto

[Gatsby77]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:02 PM, drotto said:

We can cut out all the chatter.

 

Investors and movie companies only care about if the movie makes money, period.  They do not care if the movie is $#%@, or wonderful.  They do not care if critics or fans like or hated it.  If it made money, all is good.

Exactly - at $300M worldwide so far - vs. a $200M production budget - and its best box office days clearly in the rearview mirror, it's not exactly a bomb - but it's on track to lose Disney tens of millions of dollars.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:02 PM, drotto said:

We can cut out all the chatter.

 

Investors and movie companies only care about if the movie makes money, period.  They do not care if the movie is $#%@, or wonderful.  They do not care if critics or fans like or hated it.  If it made money, all is good.

Not completely true.

Studios also want a movie to be loved, or at least pay attention to what fans and audiences think, particularly if it's part of a franchise. For instance, The Last Jedi made over a billion dollars and got positively reviewed by the critics, but was almost universally panned by the fans on social media and elsewhere (minus the toxic trolling). It wasn't all good. This caused Lucasfilm to change course for the third movie. 

Another instance, the first Suicide Squad movie. It made almost as much money as Wonder Woman, but while WW was loved by critics and fans, SS was panned by critics and fans. Though the two films made almost the same in box office, Wonder Woman was considered the hit due to the fan/critic feedback and how much it stuck with audiences, while Suicide Squad was considered a disappointment. The result? Wonder Woman was almost immediately greenlit for a sequel, while Suicide Squad was rebooted.

In this pandemic era, when box office returns are down from what they normally would be, studios are probably paying even more attention to what the critics and especially the fans think as it's hard to gage fan interest from ticket sales while people are still scared to go to the movies etc.

For these last two MCU films, based on critic and fan feedback, Shang Chi has reportedly been greenlit for a sequel. On the other hand, Eternals may not get a sequel based on the poor to mixed critic reviews, one of the movie's producers even saying Eternals doesn't need a sequel. Though only $50 million or so will separate their final box office returns, Shang Chi is considered the hit movie, Eternals is not. And that may affect what Marvel Studios does regarding their continuing stories in the future.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:41 PM, Bosco685 said:

You mean your disclaimers was the audience and critic reaction metrics which are also your concern with Eternals and Rotten Tomatoes as a system as a whole?

Critic aggregate scores are extremely flawed in my opinion, which I also say is a fact. This doesn't change the fact that Metacritic and RT aggregate scores are still considered a partial barometer of a movie's success by our society, whether I agree with it or not.

I bring up those RT scores in my examples above, not because I agree with them, but because they are being used by the media and the general public as the final word on whether a movie is a critical hit or not.

[Gatsby77]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:00 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Not completely true.

Studios also want a movie to be loved, or at least pay attention to what fans and audiences think, particularly if it's part of a franchise. For instance, The Last Jedi made over a billion dollars and got positively reviewed by the critics, but was almost universally panned by the fans on social media and elsewhere (minus the toxic trolling). It wasn't all good. This caused Lucasfilm to change course for the third movie. 

Another instance, the first Suicide Squad movie. It made almost as much money as Wonder Woman, but while WW was loved by critics and fans, SS was panned by critics and fans. Though the two films made almost the same in box office, Wonder Woman was considered the hit due to the fan/critic feedback and how much it stuck with audiences, while Suicide Squad was considered a disappointment. The result? Wonder Woman was almost immediately greenlit for a sequel, while Suicide Squad was rebooted.

In this pandemic era, when box office returns are down from what they normally would be, studios are probably paying even more attention to what the critics and especially the fans think as it's hard to gage fan interest from ticket sales while people are still scared to go to the movies etc.

For these last two MCU films, based on critic and fan feedback, Shang Chi has reportedly been greenlit for a sequel. On the other hand, Eternals may not get a sequel based on the poor to mixed critic reviews, one of the movie's producers even saying Eternals doesn't need a sequel. Though only $50 million or so will separate their final box office returns, Shang Chi is considered the hit movie, Eternals is not. And that may affect what Marvel Studios does regarding their continuing stories in the future.

?

The fans didn't like Eternals -- as shown by its "B" Cinemascore grade -- literally the worst reception out of 26 MCU movies.

And on par with such classic films as:

• Elektra
• Ghost Rider
• Green Lantern
• Steel

These are from surveys of fans (not critics) after they've just seen the film.

When the bar is "Hey - it's a bit better than Jonah Hex" you know you're in trouble.

[Bosco685]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:08 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Critic aggregate scores are extremely flawed in my opinion, which I also say is a fact. This doesn't change the fact that Metacritic and RT aggregate scores are still considered a partial barometer of a movie's success by our society, whether I agree with it or not.

I bring up those RT scores in my examples above, not because I agree with them, but because they are being used by the media and the general public as the final word on whether a movie is a critical hit or not.

All you are doing is portraying how blindly fanatical you are. And that is a sickness. Not something to be admired.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:12 PM, Bosco685 said:

All you are doing is portraying how blindly fanatical you are. And that is a sickness. Not something to be admired.

And all you keep doing is dismissing everything and anything I say and defaulting your response to "blind MCU fanatic". I say you are the one being blind.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:10 PM, Gatsby77 said:

?

The fans didn't like Eternals -- as shown by its "B" Cinemascore grade -- literally the worst reception out of 26 MCU movies.

And on par with such classic films as:

• Elektra
• Ghost Rider
• Green Lantern
• Steel

These are from surveys of fans (not critics) after they've just seen the film.

When the bar is "Hey - it's a bit better than Jonah Hex" you know you're in trouble.

I'm not really talking about Eternals per se. I'm just responding to drotto's post that all studios care about is how much money a movie makes and I responded that's not true.

[Bosco685]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:14 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

And all you keep doing is dismissing everything and anything I say and defaulting your response to "blind MCU fanatic". I say you are the one being blind.

Not when you act like such a blind follower, you dismiss and then claim metrics based on what works at a point in time. And EVERYONE sees it!

You're being disingenuous and inconsistent in what you are trying to use as reference points to justify your beliefs. And you know it. To include dismissing anything from reality that may detract from your wild statements. No matter how much you add to one post, as if more words means more facts.

Go back to Disney talking points school. You failed!

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:21 PM, Bosco685 said:

Not when you act like such a blind follower, you dismiss and then claim metrics based on what works at a point in time. And EVERYONE sees it!

You're being disingenuous and inconsistent in what you are trying to use as reference points to justify your beliefs. And you know it. To include dismissing anything from reality that may detract from your wild statements. No matter how much you add to one post, as if more words means more facts.

Go back to Disney talking points school. You failed!

Here's the point. My opinion obviously doesn't matter. In my opinion, Eternals is the best popular movie of the pandemic and obviously that's not shared by all. My previously off-the -cuff statement about Shang-Chi being the biggest hit of the pandemic era so far is what I think the U.S. based studios and the U.S. based movie chains believe. 

Going forward, I believe that U.S. studios and U.S. based movie theaters think that of all U.S. movies that debuted during the pandemic era, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings made the biggest impact with audiences and has the most upside for a follow-up film, both domestically and internationally, not accounting for China which is a mess for Hollywood right now.

[Bosco685]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:37 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Here's the point. My opinion obviously doesn't matter. In my opinion, Eternals is the best popular movie of the pandemic and obviously that's not shared by all. My previously off-the -cuff statement about Shang-Chi being the biggest hit of the pandemic era so far is what I think the U.S. based studios and the U.S. based movie chains believe. 

Going forward, I believe that U.S. studios and U.S. based movie theaters think that of all U.S. movies that debuted during the pandemic era, Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings made the biggest impact with audiences and has the most upside for a follow-up film, both domestically and internationally, not accounting for China which is a mess for Hollywood right now.

Here's my point.

Talking points were posted via reporting articles how Shang-Chi saved theaters. Meanwhile. other movies had already been contributing to the theater recovery. And doing quite well for themselves, even though the pandemic off-again/on-again theater shutdowns (which is horrible as deaths were occurring as well). But meanwhile to detract from their contributions so as to boost fanatics is sad.

The good thing is nowadays it isn't a few hardcore folks using the metrics to tell their narrative in a manipulated way. We have sites like CinemaScore that reports initial audience reactions, we have theNumbers and Box Office Mojo that post fairly rapid box office results, and the breadth and depth of reporting that goes on that aggregated can help validated what is fact versus fiction.

I believe there will be many films released over many decades. Some will be from Sony. Some from WB Studios. Others from Disney and Marvel Studios. And they will have wins, misses and horrible misses. It happens. And when someone writes the Hollywood pandemic story they will talk of the slow crawl back from the brink of failure by many contributors and moviegoers that did not want to lose that entertainment venue that has brought adventures and joy for many decades. And this may even include how some of those studio contributions had to deal with hard decisions like hybrid release schedules and studios that allowed their films to bottleneck in the release schedule while they waited for the perfect time to capture the most box office results that they could at the jeopardy of many more films waiting to start production.

Meanwhile...

Welcome to reality!

[Bosco685]

 

[Chaos_in_Canada]

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Chaos_in_Canada

[▫️]

On 11/19/2021 at 7:55 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Sticking to one's guns is a thing.

Have you met you?

[Bosco685]

On 11/20/2021 at 1:47 AM, ▫️ said:

Have you met you?

[Chaos_in_Canada]

Top 2021 Movies at the Domestic Box Office

https://m.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/domestic/all-movies/cumulative/released-in-2021

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Chaos_in_Canada