DOCTOR STRANGE IN THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS spooky & mystical spoiler thread 4 4

[Bird]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:23 AM, drotto said:

Two reasons

 

1. We were told basically outright in WV by Monica that she is forgiven, who in that setting is an audience stand in.  She then has her mental breakdown as the false world is being erased.  This breakdown is ment to be her emotional release, but also make the audience feel sorry for her and ignor her actions.  She also defeated the villian Agatha.

 

2. She again essentially defeats the villan by reversing everything that happens, then killing herself.  Again her final actions are shown as heroic, and we are ment to have nostalgia for her being a hero. She ultimately does the right thing, her emotions were understandable or at least sympathetic, therefor by doing the right thing,  she is asking for forgiveness. Based on her past history, and poorly explained turn to evil (especially for those who did not watch WV), she is shown as dying as a hero having realizing and attoned for her sins.

well, 1) is the tv show and not sure it is what I was talking about. But forgiveness was only asked for after the show, not too many were giving it in the show. She was run off and holed up by herself studying the darkhold in the end, yes Monica advocate for it but not Agatha or the others.

2) she is the villain though, she was shown the error of her ways. I don't recall a "reversing everything that happens" part, but she destroys the darkhold and kills herself in the process. It wasn't heroic, it was out of shame and guilt and hopelessness and despair and recognition of what she had done. It was pitiful, not heroic. Yes, it harkens back to her moments as a hero but highlights her villainy as well. Villainy? It is bittersweet but not heroic I don't think. Heros don't kill themselves after messing up. Sympathy, yes of course, most movies want a sympathetic villain, even The Joker now. But not forgiveness with all those dead.

[Bosco685]

On 5/8/2022 at 8:56 AM, Bird said:

I don't think that we were asked to forgive her. She was the villain, yes. She isn't coming back as a hero in the movies. She died a mass murdering villain.

Why did you feel they were going for forgiveness? I was surprised they killed her at the end (no body though) but it fits the story, no redemption just a little understanding.

I think we were. At the tail end of WandaVision.

 

[chrisco37]

Wanda was my daughter’s favorite character.  She was excited for the movie since it was a Wanda prominent movie.  She was very upset with how the movie played out.

[Jayman]

MULTIVERSE. There is still a good Wanda out there somewhere! 

[Bosco685]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:20 AM, Jayman said:

MULTIVERSE. There is still a good Wanda out there somewhere! 

I respect that.

But with anyone wanting to follow along consistently on the "hero's journey" after watching WandaVision, they most probably wanted to see how the follow-up would help her reclaim her honor as more hero than semi-villain. Not 'ONE DAY WE WILL GET AROUND TO THAT STORY BUT HOW DID YOU LIKE THIS TWIST WE THREW YOUR WAY'.

Know what I mean?

[D84]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:20 AM, Jayman said:

MULTIVERSE. There is still a good Wanda out there somewhere! 

In other words: consequence free writing.

[fantastic_four]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:20 AM, Jayman said:

MULTIVERSE. There is still a good Wanda out there somewhere! 

Like the one the 616 Wanda was dreamwalking in the film.

I found the idea of Wanda creating her own kids to be straining suspension of disbelief to its limits in West Coast Avengers, Wandavision, and now Multiverse of Madness.  Really wish they hadn't doubled down on the idea as the center of this film.  

[fantastic_four]

I've never read any comics with America Chavez.  Is there a non-cringeworthy reason her portals are shaped like the stars she bedazzles her clothes with?  

[Bird]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:59 AM, Bosco685 said:

I think we were. At the tail end of WandaVision.

 

yes, but I am talking about this movie. This is a different arc. They wanted us to go see the Doc movie, they weren't going to spoil their surprise coming in the movie.

Edited May 8, 2022 by Bird

[Jayman]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:25 AM, D84 said:

In other words: consequence free writing.

Yes unfortunately. Even though I enjoy sci-fi/fantasy/super hero movies, I’ve really come to dislike the time travel multiverse excuse that can wipe away anything that’s come before. 

[D84]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:26 AM, fantastic_four said:

I've never read any comics with America Chavez.  Is there a non-cringeworthy reason her portals are shaped like the stars she bedazzles her clothes with?  

No

[fantastic_four]

Is this eye on the forehead thing from the comics with an explanation?  I get that it's some side effect of the Darkhold on Strange, but for whatever reason no such body horror things happened with Wanda.  I just chalked it up to Sam Raimi horror body weirdness at the time on that alt version of Strange, but when they showed it again on the 616 Strange I had to wonder if it's a Raimi or Marvel creation.

[Bird]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:31 AM, fantastic_four said:

Is this eye on the forehead thing from the comics with an explanation?  I get that it's some side effect of the Darkhold on Strange, but for whatever reason no such body horror things happened with Wanda.  I just chalked it up to Sam Raimi horror body weirdness at the time on that alt version of Strange, but when they showed it again on the 616 Strange I had to wonder if it's a Raimi or Marvel creation.

The Darkhold corrupted Wanda differently, not with an eye like Doc. I read this morning they may be going for Eye of Horus thing, but it is unclear.

Just because they now have variants in the multiverse does not mean we will see them again. This was a multiverse of madness, they aren't going to confuse viewers with an Exiles type team down the line. Just won't happen, too complicated and they can do other things instead. Wanda is gone, maybe dreams, flashbacks or demon duplicity may bring Olsen back but Wanda is gone. Olsen got a great movie to finish the character, juicy dramatic scenes for her but she is gone.

[Bird]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:31 AM, fantastic_four said:

no such body horror things happened with Wanda

she didn't grow an eye, but she was crooked, broken all Baba Yaga movements at various points, and the demon version in the mindscape that killed Xavier. It was more subtle but she was showing physical corruption all along I think

[fantastic_four]

On 5/8/2022 at 7:48 AM, TupennyConan said:

Why would Disney spend $70B for FOX only to introduce Reed & Xavier to their immediate deaths in the service of DS2? I know they're variants but who's going to care now once they bring them back in more fully?

I know you haven't seen it, but open question--weren't all of the alternate-universe humans the same actors from the MCU to date?  When we saw alternate versions of Black Bolt, Peggy Carter, Maria Rambeau, Wanda, Strange, Xavier, Mordo, and Christine Palmer they were all the same actors they had been before, so it seemed like while an alternate universe version of the same human being could vary they never actually went there unless I'm overlooking someone.  That implies that John Krasinski playing Reed in the 838 universe will be the same as the actor who eventually plays him in the 616.

In the case of Xavier we got the 81-year old Patrick Stewart, so in his case it's reasonable to re-cast him as younger when they introduce the X-Men to the 616.

[drotto]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:27 AM, Bird said:

yes, but I am talking about this movie. This is a different arc. They wanted us to go see the Doc movie, they weren't going to spoil their surprise coming in the movie.

This is actually a toned down version of the character from the comics.

[Rip]

On 5/8/2022 at 7:31 AM, fantastic_four said:

Is this eye on the forehead thing from the comics with an explanation?  I get that it's some side effect of the Darkhold on Strange, but for whatever reason no such body horror things happened with Wanda.  I just chalked it up to Sam Raimi horror body weirdness at the time on that alt version of Strange, but when they showed it again on the 616 Strange I had to wonder if it's a Raimi or Marvel creation.

The 3rd eye is in the comics.

[drotto]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:39 AM, Bird said:

she didn't grow an eye, but she was crooked, broken all Baba Yaga movements at various points, and the demon version in the mindscape that killed Xavier. It was more subtle but she was showing physical corruption all along I think

I had the Ring flashbacks when she came though the mirror.

[fantastic_four]

There are quotes from Emily Blunt explicitly denying that both she and John Krasinski had been cast as Sue or Reed, but now we know she was explicitly lying.  She has also said she hates superhero films, but Mark Ruffalo has also said that so who knows, maybe she will end up being Sue.  She was also the original casting for Black Widow before she had a scheduling conflict and they had to replace her with ScarJo.

[Bird]

On 5/8/2022 at 10:41 AM, fantastic_four said:

That implies that John Krasinski playing Reed in the 838 universe will be the same as the actor who eventually plays him in the 616.

gee I really hope not. Seriously, was Reed not the worst looking character in the whole movie? I think this was just a nod to the fan gossip about him playing the character. Black Bolt looked better on screen than Reed.