The Heritage / Pedigree Schmell Collection Auction has ended...

[VintageComics]

Roy has the seller's Amulet...

 

Naw, I just didn't auction them off. I listed them with reasonable prices and they got gobbled up.

 

 

You're contradicting yourself. Above you claimed to have gotten well over GPA for most of an Avengers run.

 

I also sold a high grade Avengers run over the past two years, and my experience agrees with others from this thread that the value of the non-keys is much lower than before. Since my run was offered on several different venues over a substantial period of time, it wasn't a lack of exposure that made for slow sales, but rather a waning interest.

 

It seems extremely unlikely that you recently had significant sell-through on a run of Avengers priced above GPA. Even if somehow you inexplicably did, your experience would not be an accurate reflection of the current Avengers non-key market.

 

I'm not contradicting myself.

 

GPA alone is not "fair market value". There are many markets, and GPA is simply representing a part of that market.

 

For example, up until May / 2012 GPA had Avengers #74 CGC 9.4 at several $70 sales, but it also had 9.2 copies averaging the same $70. Incidently, Overstreet has the issue at $70 or $75 in 9.2.

 

Does that mean fair market value is $70 for both 9.2 and 9.4?

 

So what is the fair market value of an Avengers # 74 CGC 9.4? $70?

 

I sold a CGC 9.4 copy for $120. Someone sold one for $138 acc. to GPA.

 

People on this forum seem to get too caught up in staring at little data points on GPA, afraid not to pay more than the last sale and not stepping back and looking at the big picture when it comes to GPA.

 

Think about it: what that does is create a downward spiral because everyone wants to spend less than the last guy on a comic but inversely (and this is a contradiction), they want their comics to be worth more next year than than they were this year. Well, it can't work that way. If you don't pay more it won't be worth more. Someone has to pay more.

 

There are many examples such as the Avengers #74. That's just one of them.

[sufunk]

You're right but it doesn't end up working that way. Yes, most people want to pay under gpa, everyone wants to feel like they got a deal. But, either getting caught up in a auction, a HAVE to have it book or whatever the reason, people pay over gpa all the time. Yeah, they over react a lot of times when they do but most people have no problem paying over gpa as long as they can person_without_enough_empathy and moan about it. I don't have a problem with, I've done it and like I said everyone feels good when they think they got some great deal. PLENTY of comics are going up though so there's obviously nothing wrong with the system. Hell, I don't think anyone's paid under gpa for a AF15 in like the last 18 months!

[cheetah]

I admit all the talk about egos and insanity gets annoying when I read it. FWIW, I bought books because I wanted really nice copies of the titles I collected at a time when there were virtually none available. Almost none of the Avenegrs below 100 had 9.8 copies and very few even had 9.6s. Yes, I could have waited five years and gotten some of them cheaper but if I follow that logic, everyone should always wait to buy in case prices go down...unless prices go up and then you should buy right now. For a very long time in collecting the Avengers, the prices were low and a bulk of my books came at very reasonable prices. It was only towards the end when I was nearing completion, that things got very expensive, but then I was trying to find the last dozen books that I'd been looking for for 4 years. Most of the really crazy prices happened on RM books and I ended up with almost none of those.

 

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them. I made, what would be to most people, a handsome profit that might have even worked out to something higher than minimum wage for all the hours it took to put the collection together.

 

So you can call it ego...except I collect for myself and not to have bigger- contest with people. You can call it insane...except I made a very nice profit. Or you can just call it the joy and price of collecting and having other people realize that what you collect is cool enough that they want it, too.

[red rocks-migration]

I admit all the talk about egos and insanity gets annoying when I read it. FWIW, I bought books because I wanted really nice copies of the titles I collected at a time when there were virtually none available. Almost none of the Avenegrs below 100 had 9.8 copies and very few even had 9.6s. Yes, I could have waited five years and gotten some of them cheaper but if I follow that logic, everyone should always wait to buy in case prices go down...unless prices go up and then you should buy right now. For a very long time in collecting the Avengers, the prices were low and a bulk of my books came at very reasonable prices. It was only towards the end when I was nearing completion, that things got very expensive, but then I was trying to find the last dozen books that I'd been looking for for 4 years. Most of the really crazy prices happened on RM books and I ended up with almost none of those.

 

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them. I made, what would be to most people, a handsome profit that might have even worked out to something higher than minimum wage for all the hours it took to put the collection together.

 

So you can call it ego...except I collect for myself and not to have bigger- contest with people. You can call it insane...except I made a very nice profit. Or you can just call it the joy and price of collecting and having other people realize that what you collect is cool enough that they want it, too.

 

+1 well said

 

so what was your bidding strategy for the last few... just type in a crazy amount $7777 in the last 4 seconds?

[cheetah]

I admit all the talk about egos and insanity gets annoying when I read it. FWIW, I bought books because I wanted really nice copies of the titles I collected at a time when there were virtually none available. Almost none of the Avenegrs below 100 had 9.8 copies and very few even had 9.6s. Yes, I could have waited five years and gotten some of them cheaper but if I follow that logic, everyone should always wait to buy in case prices go down...unless prices go up and then you should buy right now. For a very long time in collecting the Avengers, the prices were low and a bulk of my books came at very reasonable prices. It was only towards the end when I was nearing completion, that things got very expensive, but then I was trying to find the last dozen books that I'd been looking for for 4 years. Most of the really crazy prices happened on RM books and I ended up with almost none of those.

 

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them. I made, what would be to most people, a handsome profit that might have even worked out to something higher than minimum wage for all the hours it took to put the collection together.

 

So you can call it ego...except I collect for myself and not to have bigger- contest with people. You can call it insane...except I made a very nice profit. Or you can just call it the joy and price of collecting and having other people realize that what you collect is cool enough that they want it, too.

 

+1 well said

 

so what was your bidding strategy for the last few... just type in a crazy amount $7777 in the last 4 seconds?

 

I tried to keep track of what I thought other people probably had, but mostly, yeah, I just closed my eyes and hit a number.

[Timmay]

I admit all the talk about egos and insanity gets annoying when I read it. FWIW, I bought books because I wanted really nice copies of the titles I collected at a time when there were virtually none available. Almost none of the Avenegrs below 100 had 9.8 copies and very few even had 9.6s. Yes, I could have waited five years and gotten some of them cheaper but if I follow that logic, everyone should always wait to buy in case prices go down...unless prices go up and then you should buy right now. For a very long time in collecting the Avengers, the prices were low and a bulk of my books came at very reasonable prices. It was only towards the end when I was nearing completion, that things got very expensive, but then I was trying to find the last dozen books that I'd been looking for for 4 years. Most of the really crazy prices happened on RM books and I ended up with almost none of those.

 

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them. I made, what would be to most people, a handsome profit that might have even worked out to something higher than minimum wage for all the hours it took to put the collection together.

 

So you can call it ego...except I collect for myself and not to have bigger- contest with people. You can call it insane...except I made a very nice profit. Or you can just call it the joy and price of collecting and having other people realize that what you collect is cool enough that they want it, too.

 

+1 well said

 

so what was your bidding strategy for the last few... just type in a crazy amount $7777 in the last 4 seconds?

 

I tried to keep track of what I thought other people probably had, but mostly, yeah, I just closed my eyes and hit a number.

 

[sufunk]

I admit all the talk about egos and insanity gets annoying when I read it. FWIW, I bought books because I wanted really nice copies of the titles I collected at a time when there were virtually none available. Almost none of the Avenegrs below 100 had 9.8 copies and very few even had 9.6s. Yes, I could have waited five years and gotten some of them cheaper but if I follow that logic, everyone should always wait to buy in case prices go down...unless prices go up and then you should buy right now. For a very long time in collecting the Avengers, the prices were low and a bulk of my books came at very reasonable prices. It was only towards the end when I was nearing completion, that things got very expensive, but then I was trying to find the last dozen books that I'd been looking for for 4 years. Most of the really crazy prices happened on RM books and I ended up with almost none of those.

 

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them. I made, what would be to most people, a handsome profit that might have even worked out to something higher than minimum wage for all the hours it took to put the collection together.

 

So you can call it ego...except I collect for myself and not to have bigger- contest with people. You can call it insane...except I made a very nice profit. Or you can just call it the joy and price of collecting and having other people realize that what you collect is cool enough that they want it, too.

 

Well, up until your post, I don't remember one single person even using the word "ego" except for you so I'm not quite sure why you're finding that annoying

 

You're taking my posts completely the wrong way not surprisingly. I'm not trying or intending to annoy you or insult you. All of us are in awe of your collection. When there was only one 9.8, the prices you guys paid were reasonable. Now that there are multiple 9.8's, those prices are crazy and will never be approached again. Regardless, We all pay "crazy" or "insane" prices all the time. Even though it was 1/3rd of what Doug paid 3 years ago, 99% of people here I'm sure think what I paid for the RM57 is INSANE considering it's a common late SA book with a relatively minor 1st appearance to anyone but me and a few others. I'm only using those terms in regards to FMV, which to me means what a average or reasonable person would think something is worth and not the absolute maximum the person who wants it more than anyone in the world will pay for it. you guys are acting like prices are way down because they didn't approach those single crazy high sales from 3-5 years ago.

 

Just like you said, I've said like 3 times that a lot of those issues were single highest graded at the time of those high prices. Now most of those issues have at least 2 and maybe 6 or more 9.8's so of course prices will be WAY down. There's no way a book that sold 3 Years ago when it was single highest graded for $4500 was going to come anywhere close to that Thursday or today now that there's 5 or 6 9.8's. That has nothing to do with Avengers books being dead, movie hype leaving, the SA market sucking or any of these things people are saying. It's nothing other than it was a single highest graded issue that 2 or more people wanted REALLY badly. Now that there are multiple 9.8's so that all the people willing to pay those prices back then can each have their own copy and don't have to have a bidding war over it, obviously prices weren't going to be anything close to those 9.8 prices.

 

You, Doug or anyone else paid what you had to pay to get what then was a unique book that you wanted. Now that there are multiple copies of those books floating around, it just isn't fair to act like they should be getting anywhere near the same prices though.

[cheetah]

Those were all actually VERY good prices IMO. The "originally cost" prices were far, far, FAR beyond retarded....

 

Doug may have gotten killed based on what he paid because of bidding wars and top registry wars but the prices they got today were far from "getting killed" and we're actually damn good

 

I agree.

 

The "originally cost" prices were far, far, FAR beyond retarded and were never going to happen. Those books were never "worth" that except to a few people willing to greatly overpay for top registry honors.

 

Given your second sentence, it's still possible that those prices may happen again. Never understimate the power of ego. CGC created its registry to profit from precisely that. While some of us here have no interest in fattening CGC's profits by indulging our egos, clearly others have no such qualms.

 

 

 

Just for those not paying attention.

[sufunk]

[adamstrange]

I admit all the talk about egos and insanity gets annoying when I read it. FWIW, I bought books because I wanted really nice copies of the titles I collected at a time when there were virtually none available. Almost none of the Avenegrs below 100 had 9.8 copies and very few even had 9.6s. Yes, I could have waited five years and gotten some of them cheaper but if I follow that logic, everyone should always wait to buy in case prices go down...unless prices go up and then you should buy right now. For a very long time in collecting the Avengers, the prices were low and a bulk of my books came at very reasonable prices. It was only towards the end when I was nearing completion, that things got very expensive, but then I was trying to find the last dozen books that I'd been looking for for 4 years. Most of the really crazy prices happened on RM books and I ended up with almost none of those.

 

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them. I made, what would be to most people, a handsome profit that might have even worked out to something higher than minimum wage for all the hours it took to put the collection together.

 

So you can call it ego...except I collect for myself and not to have bigger- contest with people. You can call it insane...except I made a very nice profit. Or you can just call it the joy and price of collecting and having other people realize that what you collect is cool enough that they want it, too.

 

Nicely stated

[rodan57]

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them.

 

Though the value of "too high" is relative to one's means and goals, I feel pretty much the same way. I like to crack out slabbed books to read and sometimes handling an old comic as if it's a delicate flower for fear of damage just bothers me that it bothers me.

[Flash105]

You are right about paying up for a book. Sometimes it works out and sometimes it does not. I bought a single highest graded 9.0 of a book and doubled my money in two years but then I bought a single highest graded 9.4 book for big money. Three years later there were 6 9.4s, 2 9.6s, and 1 9.8 and I lost 3K on that one.

 

As Kenny Rogers said you have to know when to hold them and know when to fold them.

[Ghost Town]

I've overpaid for many books over the years. And I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a monetary component to my collecting comic books. But investing definitely isn't and has never been the impetus for my collection. I enjoy the books. I enjoy the hunt. If I had to fret about overpaying for a book, I shouldn't be spending that money in the first place.

 

There have been tons of posts over years calling certain sales prices "insane" or another colorful adjective. And it does make for some interesting reading. But many times, those posts say more about the person writing it than it does about the price of the book.

[Hepcat]

Those were all actually VERY good prices IMO. The "originally cost" prices were far, far, FAR beyond retarded....

 

Doug may have gotten killed based on what he paid because of bidding wars and top registry wars but the prices they got today were far from "getting killed" and we're actually damn good

 

I agree.

 

The "originally cost" prices were far, far, FAR beyond retarded and were never going to happen. Those books were never "worth" that except to a few people willing to greatly overpay for top registry honors.

 

Given your second sentence, it's still possible that those prices may happen again. Never understimate the power of ego. CGC created its registry to profit from precisely that. While some of us here have no interest in fattening CGC's profits by indulging our egos, clearly others have no such qualms.

 

 

 

Just for those not paying attention.

 

Pay attention to me boy.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I admit all the talk about egos and insanity gets annoying when I read it. FWIW, I bought books because I wanted really nice copies of the titles I collected at a time when there were virtually none available. Almost none of the Avenegrs below 100 had 9.8 copies and very few even had 9.6s. Yes, I could have waited five years and gotten some of them cheaper but if I follow that logic, everyone should always wait to buy in case prices go down...unless prices go up and then you should buy right now. For a very long time in collecting the Avengers, the prices were low and a bulk of my books came at very reasonable prices. It was only towards the end when I was nearing completion, that things got very expensive, but then I was trying to find the last dozen books that I'd been looking for for 4 years. Most of the really crazy prices happened on RM books and I ended up with almost none of those.

 

When the value of my collection got too high for me to be comfortable having them around, I sold them. I made, what would be to most people, a handsome profit that might have even worked out to something higher than minimum wage for all the hours it took to put the collection together.

 

So you can call it ego...except I collect for myself and not to have bigger- contest with people. You can call it insane...except I made a very nice profit. Or you can just call it the joy and price of collecting and having other people realize that what you collect is cool enough that they want it, too.

FWIW, when I said guys were beating each other up over acquiring comics it wasn't meant as a negative.

 

Those with the means to go after what they enjoy are fully entitled to it.

 

I think some of the derogatory comments people made such is "insane", "nutty" etc were just made because for some people it's hard to fathom spending so much money on comics.

 

Everyone struggles to cope with anything that is outside their realm of normal.

 

For me, the first eye opener was when I logged into eBay for the first time and saw an Avengers #4 CGC 9.4 break $6500 at auction. I thought the sky was falling back then.

 

Boy how I was wrong. Wish I had bought it then.

[paperheart]

I've overpaid for many books over the years. And I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a monetary component to my collecting comic books. But investing definitely isn't and has never been the impetus for my collection. I enjoy the books. I enjoy the hunt. If I had to fret about overpaying for a book, I shouldn't be spending that money in the first place.

 

There have been tons of posts over years calling certain sales prices "insane" or another colorful adjective. And it does make for some interesting reading. But many times, those posts say more about the person writing it than it does about the price of the book.

 

 

 

[lou_fine]

I'm here and it's rather sparsely attended. There's a nice spread of food though.

 

I've always found it rather surprising that nobody ever seems to show up at these Heritage events. Especially considering all of the free food and refreshments they seem to have for anybody that's willing to turn up.

 

Even right in the middle of the SD Con when they have over 100,000 hungry and thirsty comic book fans right on hand. I heard that not even 20 people bothered to show up for the big Signature auction when it was held there a few summers ago.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Well, I won two books for myself from this auction. A real nice Marvel Team Up # 1 in 9.4 OW/W (a personal collecting favorite of mine) and the TTA # 71 CGC 9.6 Pac Coast (which will fit nicely into my TTA 60-80 run). Neither broke the bank, and in fact, the Marvel Team Up was an all-time GPA low, and the TTA 71 sold for less then it did eight years ago.

 

Overall, the prices looked very tame on the non-key SA stuff. The decision to offer this material at one time, instead of over 2 or more Signature Auctions certainly hampered those in the buying pool. There will be plenty of opportunities to get back into Silver age as I think this lull is going to last a while. Best not to overpay unless the book is really tough to come by.

 

 

[COI]

I've said this many times, and I think it's worth repeating: making a blanket statement about a single purchase or auction result, or in other words, making assumptions that the price achieved on a specific book is the product of insanity and/or ego, is ridiculous.

 

From what I understand, guys like Schmell and Brulato spent more than a decade before CGC opened its doors accumulating high grade marvels. And when, for example, the ASM 1 you purchased raw comes back from CGC as a 9.8, and you're very close to having a complete 9.6/9.8 set, it isn't "insane" to pay what it takes to complete that run, not from the standpoint of a collector who wants to finish his collection, nor from strictly a financial standpoint.

 

The problem with these discussions is that, as Barton kinda eluded to, most collectors who rail on the buying habits of others seem to be projecting the fears and insecurities that may be associated with their own collecting habits. When the dollars and cents are crucial for one to rationalize or justify their collection, any deviation from what is considered "normal" or "rational" buying to them becomes "insane" or "ego driven". I've caught myself doing this over the years, particularly during those time where I was a little nervous about my own spending.

 

That's not to say that purchases can't be irrational or about "ego", but you simply can't make that blanket assumption any time someone else's buying deviates from what you would consider to be the norm.

[gregreece]

There were deals here and there but overall, I thought the market absorbed this unprecedented amount of material quite well. It didn't seem outrageous to think there might be some buyer fatigue but most of the so called "common" issues sold surprisingly strong today. All in all, a lot of fun following all of the action, finding a book or two for my own collection and a few others that I thought were true bargains. Sounds like many on here were able to find at least one piece to add so all in all, a great few days.