Dark Knight Massacre. Multiple people killed in DKR Showing!!!

[dupont2005]

This is one of those topics that can't really be decided by debate. If everyone were armed, sometimes crime would be deterred or arrested, and sometimes even more people would be killed. Is it worth it? That's a personal decision that can be argued but neither proven nor disproven; perhaps a number could be arrived at but statistics exist outside of ethics.

 

In Dice's scenario, yes I'd prefer to have 200 people armed if they are not i dio ts, but I think you give the general populace way too much credit.

 

 

Exactly.

 

The scenario in that video Roy posted that everyone is applauding could have gone horribly wrong. Everyone in that room is fortunate that the robbers decided to run instead of return fire and spray bullets all over the room in a panic.

In that video the robber wasn't there to kill everything that entered his line of fire either. The CCW could have been the first one to bite it if this guy was a spree killer and not a crook. Sometimes robberies do turn into multiple homicides, and the guy that plugged the robbers made sure that didn't happen, and I agree things could have gone bad there, but it's still not really comparable to a "shooting fish in a barrel" type of thing where a guy suits up, brings along smokebombs, flash grenades, teargas, whatever, and has high capacity mags with the intent to kill, probably not even planning on surviving the spree. There might not be much to end those types of things besides the shooter running out of ammo. I think that's how just about every enclosed mass execution I can remember ended.

 

This is exactly my point. The robbers could have just started shooting, or they could have simply taken the money and ran. The guy that stepped up to stop them could have made things worse or better. If a couple of people in that theater were armed, they may or may not have been able to stop him; they may or may not have made things worse. Put multiple guns in multiple hands, and anything can happen. That's why this is a retarded discussion, and I'm leaving now.

Well, the robbers definitely didn't just start shooting, and they definitely didn't go there prepared to take fire. If they had then it would be a comparable incident. Not to say they couldn't have ended up killing someone if that guy wasn't there, but it's not the same.

[excelsior1986]

You've got to understand how it went down for people in this situation.

 

On a Denver talkshow this morning, a guy called in from the situation. He had his 18 year old son with him.

 

He said everything was normal. He didn't notice anyone getting up to go outside. It was only realized when light came from the door (assuming a night light outside). He said his first thought was that it was part of the festivities (due to the "costume" the guy was wearing). He said he heard something hit the back and a flash in front of him (gas was in the back and flash in the front). At this point, he still thought it was for fun by the theatre. When the gas started tinging his throat, he knew something was wrong. Now, it's smokey in the building. And he starts to see firing blasts (can't even tell what type of gun it was). So he dropped his son to the floor. The people were crawling out of the theatre. And this individual_without_enough_empathy, while randomly popping around, went to the exit where people were crawling out and continued firing. Knowing the above, could a gun have helped? Potentially. Or he could have killed other people not knowing where the gunmen was. The sad reality is, we simply have no control. And it's why it's so tough after things like this happen.

 

Pat

 

+1 Trying to understand the reasoning behind something like this is always hard. After the shooting in Arizona Jon Stewart gave a speech on the daily show that i think rings true to this situation as well.

 

"Someone or something will shatter our world again. Wouldnt it be a shame if we didnt take this moment, to better create the world we are creating today, that will ultimately be shattered again by lunacy, to make it better than the one we just lost."

-Jon Stewart

 

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-january-10-2011/arizona-shootings-reaction?xrs=share_copy

 

 

[Doohickamabob]

If every single person in that theater was armed I doubt the guy would have even attempted to do it.

And if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his while hopping.

 

[jools&jim]

 

This thread could have been (marginally) useful as a clearing house for tidbits from the various news sources related to the shootings which have a (more or less) direct bearing on our hobby -- e.g., an early report which indicated that people in the theater thought the shooter was someone dressed up in a super-hero/villain costume of some sort, which I'm told is not entirely uncommon at comics-related/SF movie premieres these days.

 

Instead, we've devolved into the same tired old agenda-driven nonsense, idle speculation, superficial philosophizing, and general intellectual palaver which is common to both the banal mass media AND chat boards.

 

We live in an ugly world where ugly acts are common and getting worse. And, as usual when such crushingly sad, sick, and horrible things happen, I'm reminded of this bit of dialogue from Woody Allen's Hannah and Her Sisters:

 

"...More gruesome film clips...and more puzzled intellectuals declaring their mystification...The reason why they could never answer the question 'How could it possibly happen?' is that it's the wrong question. Given what people are, the question is 'Why doesn't it happen more often...?'"

 

[Dano]

This is mind numbing here in Denver... we've got friends that are talking about friends they still haven't heard from. There are some amazing stories of bright lives cut down last night. Mostly young adults. I'm looking forward to the day when this POS name and photo isn't everywhere and the vigil and the celebration of the lives of the fallen can commence.

 

Here's Jessica's story, as told by her grief-stricken brother...

 

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article/278793/346/Brother-of-victim-Remember-her-smile

 

Dan

[Doohickamabob]

Aren't emergency exits supposed to sound an alarm? I agree that now every theater is going to have to beef up on procedures and security.

I think it was just a regular exit. He probably propped it open in advance somehow.

[Doohickamabob]

This is the sickest f....k that ever lived. Tmz reports he dyed his hair partically red and told the the cops was the joker....

Mitch, good to have you back! The red hair dye seems appropriate since this guy is a massive clown.

[The Troll King]

This is one of those topics that can't really be decided by debate. If everyone were armed, sometimes crime would be deterred or arrested, and sometimes even more people would be killed. Is it worth it? That's a personal decision that can be argued but neither proven nor disproven; perhaps a number could be arrived at but statistics exist outside of ethics.

 

In Dice's scenario, yes I'd prefer to have 200 people armed if they are not i dio ts, but I think you give the general populace way too much credit.

 

 

Let me tell you about what happened at the Luby's in Killeen, TX.

 

A woman I know was at the Luby's having lunch with her parents. When Hennard drove his truck through, he got out and started shooting people.

 

This friend of mine reached for her purse where she kept her gun and then realized she had left it in the glove box of her car because it was not legal in Texas to conceal carry.

Hennard was very random with his killings. My friends father tried to tackle Hennard and was shot in the chest. When her mother went to her husband and cradled him in her arms, Hennard casually walked over and shot her point blank in the head.

 

23 people were murdered that day. When the police arrived an officer before even stepping in through a broken window fired one shot into the ceiling and shouted for Hennard to surrender. Instead, Hennard immediately ran into the bathroom and shot himself in the head.

 

The reason why I even bring this up is because all it took was ONE shot fired into the ceiling to stop Hennard on his rampage. Had my friend of had her gun on her, the entire thing could have ended very quickly, saving many of those people and possibly both of her parents.

 

The woman I speak of is Suzanne Hupp and she was instrumental in getting the concealed carry law passed in Texas.

 

 

[Doohickamabob]

Just an informational point about the Conceal Carry Law. Here is the current status in Colorado (per Wikipedia):

 

"Colorado: Legislation was introduced in Colorado to allow Constitutional Carry in early 2011. The bill passed the House with a vote of 40-25 but did not move in the Senate. Currently Colorado issues CCWs on a shall-issue basis and open carry is legal without a permit.[6] The Colorado Legislature begins its 2012 session on January 11th."

[mackenzie999]

This is one of those topics that can't really be decided by debate. If everyone were armed, sometimes crime would be deterred or arrested, and sometimes even more people would be killed. Is it worth it? That's a personal decision that can be argued but neither proven nor disproven; perhaps a number could be arrived at but statistics exist outside of ethics.

 

In Dice's scenario, yes I'd prefer to have 200 people armed if they are not i dio ts, but I think you give the general populace way too much credit.

 

 

Let me tell you about what happened at the Luby's in Killeen, TX.

 

A woman I know was at the Luby's having lunch with her parents. When Hennard drove his truck through, he got out and started shooting people.

 

This friend of mine reached for her purse where she kept her gun and then realized she had left it in the glove box of her car because it was not legal in Texas to conceal carry.

Hennard was very random with his killings. My friends father tried to tackle Hennard and was shot in the chest. When her mother went to her husband and cradled him in her arms, Hennard casually walked over and shot her point blank in the head.

 

23 people were murdered that day. When the police arrived an officer before even stepping in through a broken window fired one shot into the ceiling and shouted for Hennard to surrender. Instead, Hennard immediately ran into the bathroom and shot himself in the head.

 

The reason why I even bring this up is because all it took was ONE shot fired into the ceiling to stop Hennard on his rampage. Had my friend of had her gun on her, the entire thing could have ended very quickly, saving many of those people and possibly both of her parents.

 

The woman I speak of is Suzanne Hupp and she was instrumental in getting the concealed carry law passed in Texas.

 

 

Yep, and that is covered by the "sometimes it will work" portion of my statement.

[JediOne]

 

Let me tell you about what happened at the Luby's in Killeen, TX.

 

A woman I know was at the Luby's having lunch with her parents. When Hennard drove his truck through, he got out and started shooting people.

 

This friend of mine reached for her purse where she kept her gun and then realized she had left it in the glove box of her car because it was not legal in Texas to conceal carry.

Hennard was very random with his killings. My friends father tried to tackle Hennard and was shot in the chest. When her mother went to her husband and cradled him in her arms, Hennard casually walked over and shot her point blank in the head.

 

23 people were murdered that day. When the police arrived an officer before even stepping in through a broken window fired one shot into the ceiling and shouted for Hennard to surrender. Instead, Hennard immediately ran into the bathroom and shot himself in the head.

 

The reason why I even bring this up is because all it took was ONE shot fired into the ceiling to stop Hennard on his rampage. Had my friend of had her gun on her, the entire thing could have ended very quickly, saving many of those people and possibly both of her parents.

 

The woman I speak of is Suzanne Hupp and she was instrumental in getting the concealed carry law passed in Texas.

 

 

WELL SAID MY FRIEND!

 

This is why I live in AZ (born and raised in WY) after leaving the SEAL teams in the Navy. I pity the fool who runs into me and my family either at our house or if I witness something like this go down as I will prepared. (Eagle Scott motto - Be Prepared!)

 

I am just sicken by today's events. My heart and prays go out to the families impacted.

 

I hope each and everyone of you give your family an extra hug, kiss or phone call tonight. Our lives on this earth are so short and today is a clear reminder of that.

 

God Bless the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment

[mackenzie999]

...we've devolved into the same tired old agenda-driven nonsense, idle speculation, superficial philosophizing, and general intellectual palaver which is common to both the banal mass media AND chat boards.

 

And yet here you are.

 

People like to talk things over, especially sensational issues that they feel strongly about and that occupy the grayer areas of right & wrong. I'm enjoying the views that are counter to my own, it's how I learn and grow.

[jools&jim]

 

And yet here you are...

 

Not for long...

 

 

[Bropper]

Thus dies a decent thread...

 

I agree. That Batman panel shouldn't have been posted.

 

I posted the panel because it stuck me emotionally combined with all the tragedy...and I included no comment with it.

 

You sir are the wacko that turned this into a gun control debate. Perhaps you should not have been the one to read your own politics into a comic panel and weaken a very thoughtful thread.

 

Really? Seriously? You aren't that thick are you? You didn't have to comment on it because your political stance was in the the picture and words in the panel insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

Not so sir, I happen to own 3 guns, including an assault rifle. But since you know everything, perhaps I will just sit back and enjoy your fantastic wisdom.

 

Well goodie for you. I suspect you will be destroying those guns like Batman in the panel because they are bad.

 

Weren't you just telling me how dare i tell someone what not to talk about but here you are telling someone they shouldn't post a panel from a comic that they were obviously moved enough by to share with other people. Every comment you've made has been confrontational and you're obviously here to just argue with everyone and prove that everyones wrong and youre right. Why don't you just move along because we can get along fine without your holier than thou attitude.

 

You choose to post panel and I choose to respond to it. If you didn't want anyone to respond to it you should not have posted it. Why don't you look in the mirror with your confrontational attitude and walk west til your hat floats.

[dicjones]

This is complete BS. I'm so frickin' upset right now. I wake up this morning and see this on the news, and it happened at a theater 10 minutes away. This infuriates me.

 

This was definitely preplanned. What drives people to do something so evil? You hate your life so much that you have to not only go kill random, innocent people, but you're deranged enough that you can plan it and put it into effect? Sick. Absolutely disgusting.

 

Thank God your Okay,you were the first person I thought of and hoped you didn't see the movie.This is unbelievable,how can one even see this coming?

 

Thanks man. Luckily for me and my comic friends, we were out last night doing our monthly "Drink and Draw" get together.

 

I don't know why, but this news has me really shaken this morning. The combination of it being so close to home, the fact that it involves people who love movies and possibly comics, the fact that it's so horrific...just a really rough day so far.

 

But one thing I've already started doing is making it a day for random acts of kindness. To counter some of the pain and suffering, I'm going to do little things throughout the day to bring a bit of happiness to those around me. I hope others will do the same.

 

Glad you're okay as well.

 

Is this the theatre that you typically go to?

 

Never been there, actually. I hope I didn't come across as suggesting that I was "this close" to going last night or anything like that. But if I remember right, the theater is a new one built a year ago to replace an old theater and run down mall.

 

No, not at all. I didn't think that you almost went to the show last night or anything.

 

I was just commenting on your post that said it's close to your place. I was wondering if that's the one you normally go to. If it were, you'd probably be even more shaken up.

 

 

Agreed. It's weird being able to actually picture the scene because you've driven by there and know the location.

 

I know this won't happen again today or this weekend, at least, we can hope. But I won't be seeing Batman this weekend. I don't think I could sit there and enjoy it. I'd be thinking about last night, or wondering what scene he burst in on, or looking at the exits...

 

You are spot on with that one Reno. My wife and I went to the 12:30 IMAX today and I kept thinking about that very thing. Especially when Bane says right at the beginning, "Nobody knew me before the mask". It chilled me to the bone.

 

I debated for a couple hours whether to go at all, but in the end, despite everything that bothered me about it and still bothers me I kept coming back to the idea that I wasn't going to allow myself to live scared.

 

I can't imagine the pain and fear all those people must be feeling and will be feeling for a long time to come. My heart goes out them all.

[Hibou]

They're going to blow up his apartment...

 

(I think it was actually 'suggested' that they may have to set off explosives.)

 

I hope that doesn't mean they'll lose any evidence in the process.

 

 

[Gsims718]

I woke up and went straight to the theatre this morning to catch a 7:30 Am showing. When I got out I had a text from a friend telling me what happened.

 

So incredibly sad. It has really bummed me out the rest of the day.

 

Part of going to a theatre and watching a movie isn't just seeing it on the big screen, but the social aspect of enjoying something with others. Identifying with other people, laughing together and enjoying a good story.

 

I have been looking forward to this movie for so long, and was so incredibly excited to see it. I think about the people in that theatre together, having a great time, and their excitement and it just helps you identify with them even more.

 

All I can say is so incredibly sad and heart breaking.

[Vistor]

The idea that your victims might be carrying guns might deter criminals but it's not going to do anything with a guy like this. I think the video of the old man shooting at the two punks is a perfect example. They could have shot back but they were in survival mode and ran for the door. They were criminals looking to rob someone. People that go off the deep end like this guy are usually planning on dying in the end anyways. I’m actually surprised he didn’t kill himself in the parking lot before the cops took him. Maybe his plan was to be in an interrogation with the police and brag about wiring his apartment building to explode. Seems almost like the boat scene in the last Batman movie.

 

As far as the possibility of any armed patrons being able to make things better, I really doubt it. They would have had handguns against body armor and an assault rifle and shotgun. All that while choking on gas with their eyes watering and people probably jumping over seats and running all over the place between them and their target. During the Tyler courthouse shootings Mark Wilson, a navy vet and fire arms instructor, snuck up behind the shooter who was armed with an assault rifle and wearing body armor. He had several free shots on him with a .45 while his back was turned and he was shooting it out with sheriff’s deputies. The gunman stumbled a bit but then mowed him down. You can argue that Wilson didn’t know his target was wearing body armor and not aiming accordingly and someone in the theater with a handgun may have realized this guy was but I somehow doubt it. It would have been an incredible shot even if they did. And unlike Wilson, there were so many people packed in the theater that I doubt that stopping to kill someone with a handgun would have even slowed down this guy’s kill rate.

 

I’m actually guessing that someone in that theater probably was armed, either legally or illegally, and was thinking of nothing except doing their best to crawl or run out of there with their families. Not posting this to say carrying hand guns is good or bad, just that in a situation like this I think they are fairly irrelevant. I don’t think a couple of uniformed cops sitting in the audience would have made a difference.

 

[Spiderphill]

Thus dies a decent thread...

 

I agree. That Batman panel shouldn't have been posted.

 

I posted the panel because it stuck me emotionally combined with all the tragedy...and I included no comment with it.

 

You sir are the wacko that turned this into a gun control debate. Perhaps you should not have been the one to read your own politics into a comic panel and weaken a very thoughtful thread.

 

Really? Seriously? You aren't that thick are you? You didn't have to comment on it because your political stance was in the the picture and words in the panel insufficiently_thoughtful_person.

 

Not so sir, I happen to own 3 guns, including an assault rifle. But since you know everything, perhaps I will just sit back and enjoy your fantastic wisdom.

 

Well goodie for you. I suspect you will be destroying those guns like Batman in the panel because they are bad.

 

Weren't you just telling me how dare i tell someone what not to talk about but here you are telling someone they shouldn't post a panel from a comic that they were obviously moved enough by to share with other people. Every comment you've made has been confrontational and you're obviously here to just argue with everyone and prove that everyones wrong and youre right. Why don't you just move along because we can get along fine without your holier than thou attitude.

 

You choose to post panel and I choose to respond to it. If you didn't want anyone to respond to it you should not have posted it. Why don't you look in the mirror with your confrontational attitude and walk west til your hat floats.

No use in debating gun laws. The bottom line the shooter wasn't your average human being. He was intelligent and planned out this whole entire thing. Gun laws or not, people will always have access to illegal guns somehow. The illegal gun market is insane and it's almost impossible to control.

 

There is one thing that has ruined this country and is continuing to ruin this country. It's called corruption, there is illegal and legal forms of corruption. I guess it's human nature for some people to be greedy, even at the cost of others.

[The Troll King]

I challenge anyone here to take a slug to the chest at 10 yards while wearing a vest and see if it doesn't knock you on your .