Traded: CGC 4.0 AF15 and CGC 9.6 TMNT 1 1 1

[valiantman]

I get the feeling you're a nice guy and you don't want valiant to have a bad taste in his mouth about the deal if he should have second thoughts. Clearly 2 out of three people that voted would have made the same trade that you made.

Just because this point is important and it was made several pages ago... here it goes again.

 

70 people voted TMNT #1.

There are 38 copies graded CGC 9.6 or higher.

 

Supply and demand.

 

What would it take for TMNT #1 to go insane with higher prices?

A half-dozen of us.

 

What would it take for AF #15 to go much higher than it already is?

Hundreds of us.

 

TMNT #1 demand is nothing compared to AF #15...

but TMNT #1 demand compared to the number of copies available... is a powder keg.

[NewWorldOrder]

Link to the one that sold last night?

 

 

 

 

Here it is.

 

Not taking a position. Just giving link.

 

Would present beautifully if it didn't have that Stamp and black marker mark on it.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Spiderman-on-Tilt

[Jaydogrules]

Link to the one that sold last night?

 

 

 

 

Here it is.

 

Not taking a position. Just giving link.

 

Would present beautifully if it didn't have that Stamp and black marker mark on it.

 

 

If only . Not all 4.0s are created equal.

 

-J.

[NewWorldOrder]

Link to the one that sold last night?

 

 

 

 

Here it is.

 

Not taking a position. Just giving link.

 

Would present beautifully if it didn't have that Stamp and black marker mark on it.

 

 

If only . Not all 4.0s are created equal.

 

-J.

 

yes I know

 

thank you.

[JAM_NYC]

 

Fact of the matter is, four visually virtually indistinguishable turtles on a karate team that were created originally as a parody to Daredevil Ronin, in no way, whatsoever compare, or will ever compare, with characters as singular as Spiderman, wolverine, iron man, hulk, wonder woman, green lantern, deadpool, venom, the joker, lex luthor, batman, superman, swamp thing, aqua man, flash, or whomever. TMNT is a niche book guys. As a comic, it is not mainstream. It's small print run by comparison, is plenty to satisfy the small pool of buyers who are looking for one at any give time. And when the speculator contingency moves on to the next hot book, the pool of buyers will shrink back down to its normal foundation, and the current prices we are seeing will drop back down to their historical levels. We have already seen the "explosion" in prices because of this movie that's coming out. And the requisite subsequent price deflation is inevitable. Hence many collectors who do not see this book as a "buy" at these price points. They are artificially high right now.

 

-J.

 

Fixed that for you. While both were done by Miller, Daredevil was good, Ronin was not. You could argue the covers to Ronin were pretty good.

 

 

touché. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

did you just include deadpool and venom in a list of the most amazing characters ever created?

 

Deadpool was essentially a rip off of DC's Deathstroke and Venom... Venom was nothing more than a fanboy idea the Shooter paid $200 bucks for back in the 80s...

you've made venom sad...

 

[Jaydogrules]

Link to the one that sold last night?

 

 

 

 

Here it is.

 

Not taking a position. Just giving link.

 

Would present beautifully if it didn't have that Stamp and black marker mark on it.

 

 

If only . Not all 4.0s are created equal.

 

-J.

 

yes I know

 

thank you.

 

You're welcome. And congrats again on the great pick up. (thumbs u

 

-J.

[Jeffreykli]

Seems it was ignored, but I'll say it again:

 

Iron Man is #4.

I'll respond.

 

No. He isn't.

 

(thumbs u

 

How so?

 

Who's bigger, right now?

 

I'd say that Wonder Woman is actually bigger/more popular than either Wolverine or Iron Man.

[valiantman]

Seems it was ignored, but I'll say it again:

 

Iron Man is #4.

I'll respond.

 

No. He isn't.

 

(thumbs u

 

How so?

 

Who's bigger, right now?

 

The question was...

4th most important comic book of all time by its popularity

I don't think Tales of Suspense #39 ranks #4.

 

Hulk #181 is higher... not by price, but by popularity of the book.

[Comicopolis]

Seems it was ignored, but I'll say it again:

 

Iron Man is #4.

I'll respond.

 

No. He isn't.

 

(thumbs u

 

How so?

 

Who's bigger, right now?

 

I'd say that Wonder Woman is actually bigger/more popular than either Wolverine or Iron Man.

 

In what way?

[Dark Knight]

Robin as #4 there I said it

[NewWorldOrder]

Already at 9.4 price in a CGC 9.2 holder........

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131123042628?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Hulksdaddy1]

Gotta be a...

 

[Jaydogrules]

no one said the speculators weren't making bigger, extremely risky bets on it right now with the movie coming out. In fact I think that's what most people have said. Why do guys always want to believe that their "hot book" of the moment will be the ones that's different? Human nature I suppose. Wake me up in the Fall on this one....

 

-J.

[ft88]

I'm all for making easy comments on speculator books ready for a crash but I really don't think this applies for TMNT 1. Strange Tales 180, Nova 1, Superman 18 OK, fine. I'm with you. But

 

TMNT 1 is a true must have for many collectors. Natural limited print run, tough black cover, historically significant to comic book history and on and on. So if this book doubles in price as it seems to be doing, shouting out "Bubble" just seems to be sour grapes.

 

While the movie can certainly drive prices higher, TMNT has had and likely will continue to have multiple waves of pop culture influence. While movies are the most important; the toys, cartoons combine with the comics can't also be underestimated in taking up brain space in the world of collecting pop culture.

 

Also, that 9.2 seemed like a soft 9.2 with a couple visible flaws IMO. Suggesting a pretty strong price. However, it was bid up by one bidder which gives me pause for red flags on legitimate FMV.

[Jaydogrules]

However, it was bid up by one bidder which gives me pause for red flags on legitimate FMV.

 

Shill bidding on ebay to pump a hot book of the moment is nothing new. TMNT 1 has value obviously but has only experienced this sudden increased interest because of the movie. Right now it is the "must have" book so long time owners and speculators are cashing out. This is the stuff bubbles are made of. TMNT has a very narrow collector base that its smaller than normal print run has always been able to satiate. When this wave of additional interest passes it will very likely shrivel back to that base and price deflation will surely result. To say these kinds of predictions (which are actually based on market trends) are "sour grapes", would be like me equating all of this sudden talk about how awesome and important and "key" TMNT 1 is to carnival barking by guys who have the book to sell, and/or guys who have recently purchased the book at the height of the bubble market, and don't want to feel they have overpaid. These kinds of conversations just don't happen with the AF 15 market. I'm sure that's part of the reason why 2 out of 3 poll voters would take the AF 15, as opposed to 1 out of 4 for the TMNT 1.

 

-J.

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

However, it was bid up by one bidder which gives me pause for red flags on legitimate FMV.

 

Shill bidding on ebay to pump a hot book of the moment is nothing new. TMNT 1 has value obviously but has only experienced this sudden increased interest because of the movie. Right now it is the "must have" book so long time owners and speculators are cashing out. This is the stuff bubbles are made of. TMNT has a very narrow collector base that its smaller than normal print run has always been able to satiate. When this wave of additional interest passes it will very likely shrivel back to that base and price deflation will surely result. To say these kinds of predictions (which are actually based on market trends) are "sour grapes", would be like me equating all of this sudden talk about how awesome and important and "key" TMNT 1 is to carnival barking by guys who have the book to sell, and/or guys who have recently purchased the book at the height of the bubble market, and don't want to feel they have overpaid. These kinds of conversations just don't happen with the AF 15 market. I'm sure that's part of the reason why 2 out of 3 poll voters would take the AF 15, as opposed to 1 out of 4 for the TMNT 1.

 

-J.

 

 

Movie trailer hasn't even come out yet for TMNT. Bubble hasn't even begun yet.

 

Everything you said applies to all your books you have in your signature line. You do get that right?

 

Avenger #1, TOS 39, JIM 83, and yes even AF 15 are all bubble inflated because of the movies as the main factor.

 

Have you not owned an OSPG then? TMNT #1 whether you want to admit or not is usually #1 top copper book. It had a stable blue chip market value since the 90's.

 

More people pick AF 15 cause Spider-man is a generally perceived as a better character. Who the F doesn't know that.

 

Without 6 Spider-man movies and counting AF 15's would be worth much less of what they currently trade for.

 

BTW every single market in the world is manipulated by the big players, and pawns are used in the process.

 

No such thing as the "free market," a few will always control many.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Spiderman-on-Tilt

[Jaydogrules]

However, it was bid up by one bidder which gives me pause for red flags on legitimate FMV.

 

Shill bidding on ebay to pump a hot book of the moment is nothing new. TMNT 1 has value obviously but has only experienced this sudden increased interest because of the movie. Right now it is the "must have" book so long time owners and speculators are cashing out. This is the stuff bubbles are made of. TMNT has a very narrow collector base that its smaller than normal print run has always been able to satiate. When this wave of additional interest passes it will very likely shrivel back to that base and price deflation will surely result. To say these kinds of predictions (which are actually based on market trends) are "sour grapes", would be like me equating all of this sudden talk about how awesome and important and "key" TMNT 1 is to carnival barking by guys who have the book to sell, and/or guys who have recently purchased the book at the height of the bubble market, and don't want to feel they have overpaid. These kinds of conversations just don't happen with the AF 15 market. I'm sure that's part of the reason why 2 out of 3 poll voters would take the AF 15, as opposed to 1 out of 4 for the TMNT 1.

 

-J.

 

 

Movie trailer hasn't even come out yet for TMNT. Bubble hasn't even begun yet.

 

Everything you said applies to all your books you have in your signature line. You do get that right?

 

Avenger #1, TOS 39, JIM 83, and yes even AF 15 are all bubble inflated because of the movies as the main factor.

 

Have you not owned an OSPG then? TMNT #1 whether you want to admit or not is usually #1 top copper book. It had a stable blue chip market value since the 90's.

 

More people pick AF 15 cause Spider-man is a generally perceived as a better character. Who the F doesn't know that.

 

Without 6 Spider-man movies and counting AF 15's would be worth much less of what they currently trade for.

 

BTW every single market in the world is manipulated by the big players, and pawns are used in the process.

 

No such thing as the "free market," a few will always control many.

 

Of course and by the time the trailer does come out those "few" will have already moved onto the next hot book and the market manipulation cycle will begin again. For you to fail to acknowledge that shows your own bias toward a book you obviously have a vested interest in. TMNT 1 is a niche book with a smallish collector base. Movie talk brings in the kinds of people who artificially and temporarily pump up books before the inevitable dump. These are not the kind of buyers that bring price stability to a book. I'm simply re-stating a generally accepted fact, so don't shoot the messenger.

 

-J.

[NewWorldOrder]

However, it was bid up by one bidder which gives me pause for red flags on legitimate FMV.

 

Shill bidding on ebay to pump a hot book of the moment is nothing new. TMNT 1 has value obviously but has only experienced this sudden increased interest because of the movie. Right now it is the "must have" book so long time owners and speculators are cashing out. This is the stuff bubbles are made of. TMNT has a very narrow collector base that its smaller than normal print run has always been able to satiate. When this wave of additional interest passes it will very likely shrivel back to that base and price deflation will surely result. To say these kinds of predictions (which are actually based on market trends) are "sour grapes", would be like me equating all of this sudden talk about how awesome and important and "key" TMNT 1 is to carnival barking by guys who have the book to sell, and/or guys who have recently purchased the book at the height of the bubble market, and don't want to feel they have overpaid. These kinds of conversations just don't happen with the AF 15 market. I'm sure that's part of the reason why 2 out of 3 poll voters would take the AF 15, as opposed to 1 out of 4 for the TMNT 1.

 

-J.

 

 

Movie trailer hasn't even come out yet for TMNT. Bubble hasn't even begun yet.

 

Everything you said applies to all your books you have in your signature line. You do get that right?

 

Avenger #1, TOS 39, JIM 83, and yes even AF 15 are all bubble inflated because of the movies as the main factor.

 

Have you not owned an OSPG then? TMNT #1 whether you want to admit or not is usually #1 top copper book. It had a stable blue chip market value since the 90's.

 

More people pick AF 15 cause Spider-man is a generally perceived as a better character. Who the F doesn't know that.

 

Without 6 Spider-man movies and counting AF 15's would be worth much less of what they currently trade for.

 

BTW every single market in the world is manipulated by the big players, and pawns are used in the process.

 

No such thing as the "free market," a few will always control many.

 

Of course and by the time the trailer does come out those "few" will have already moved onto the next hot book and the market manipulation cycle will begin again. For you to fail to acknowledge that shows your own bias toward a book you obviously have a vested interest in. TMNT 1 is a niche book with a smallish collector base. Movie talk brings in the kinds of people who artificially and temporarily pump up books before the inevitable dump. These are not the kind of buyers that bring price stability to a book. I'm simply re-stating a generally accepted fact, so don't shoot the messenger.

 

-J.

 

What bias? I will never have TMNT #1 in my collection.

 

See this is just where you lose me.

 

I will take AF 15 every single time over a TMNT #1, but that doesn't mean TMNT #1 isn't a mega book.

 

Small compared to AF 15 yes, but I disagree whole heartily with what you said that I highlighted in bold.

 

TMNT #1 is not some book that exploded out of no where like the POS Avengers 55.

 

You own an Avengers #1 CGC 7.5 so tell us all why that book jumped so much in recent years? Cause before that jump the book was not very big or asked about at shows really all that much.

 

Avengers #1 is a bubble book then right by your logic?

 

Every book in your sig line gets embarrassed the same way compared to an AF 15 if you are comparing long-term cash flow.

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2014 by Spiderman-on-Tilt

[NewWorldOrder]

This thread needs to die so as my last post here I will just say if someone also agrees with this:

 

"TMNT #1 has always had a very narrow collector base that is smaller than the 3000 print run which has always been able to satisfy."

 

Then SOT will always look at that opinion and person as:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2014 by Spiderman-on-Tilt

[gcstomp]

TMNT 1 is a 30 year old book that has had a wide base of rabid fans for every bit of that time. In terms of top books of the past 30 years it has to be a top 10 book, in virtually any kind of metric you can think up. I see a single hyper vocal poster who feels TMNT 1 is a bubble book.

 

Great, noted. But how many posts from that 1 poster do we need to know their position?