Official TMNT Speculation Thread 14 14

[Ryan.]

13 minutes ago, Subby1938 said:

Maybe they just want that version . It’s a perfect copy some completionists pay money for obscure issues . A thought anyways 

There's a 9.8 on ebay for $235. 

[Subby1938]

Oh well that’s just stupid on their part then …. Wow

[sorrenmj]

The seller needs to update their listing title. At the moment it suggests it’s a true second print and could be seen as misleading. Updating it as they have isn’t clear enough, especially if the highest bidder placed their bid before the update. If it was me I’d pull the listing and start again making it clear it’s the free reproduction that came with a visual book. There’s no way someone is spending over $1,000 for a reprint of a second printing. This will most likely double or triple by tomorrow’s end of auction.

[sorrenmj]

I won’t be surprised if this catches on and the $50 visual book starts selling out just so people can sell the reproduction second print it comes with.

[sorrenmj]

On 4/5/2021 at 3:35 PM, Subby1938 said:

Look at the census numbers please . The second print is way rarer with next to nothing graded compared to 1st prints 

I sort of agree. I think enough people over the years would have trashed their second print, discarding it as a worthless copy, bringing surviving copies to around the number of the first print or maybe even less. I think more people would have saved their first print one way or another, but not so much with the second print. Just my thought. 

[sorrenmj]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:14 PM, valiantman said:

Combining the details of this particular book with the current practices in the industry...

A CGC 9.8 blue label TMNT #3 variant with signatures inside has all the "signs" pointing to an original copy that was obtained at the 1985 convention and somehow kept pristine during the convention and the 35+ years that followed.

A CGC 9.8 yellow label TMNT #3 variant with signatures on the cover has all the "signs" pointing to a copy that has been recently "maximized" (signature added to the cover decades after printing, CGC witness verified, no doubt pressed before CGC grading), etc., and for lack of a better word the book "reeks" of seller cash-grab.

They're both awesome books, but TMNT #3 variant represents a very special, very early day in the history of TMNT.    The closer you can get to that day and the preservation of that day, the better. 

Yellow labels blur the "special day" in history with another day... a random day... decades later... when the book was scribbled on by that original creator --- now a famous millionaire, not the same kid who made a comic --- and presented for "maximum profit" to CGC for certification before coming to market.

If these books were $5, who cares... but they're 5-figure books... and collectors tend to get "serious" when the prices get that high.

Your analysis is flawless. This is exactly how I feel about my NYC variant, which was bagged/boarded on the day of the con and has been ever since.
 

[Subby1938]

Not sure I agree signatures after the fact are meaningless scribbles . One day these guys won’t be around to sign anything,  are they not worth something then more than the fact it was signed at a con after they became famous ?

I think collectors that want special items may hold early sigs in high regard but that is a very niche group that can pay that premium . I’d be happy with a copy any copy for a reasonable price . 
 

It’s like comparing a published piece of art to a commission by the same artist . Most value the published works and they are way more expensive but I’m the type that’s happy with any original on my wall . Again when the day comes they are not around anymore published or not it’s special . My two cents 

[pubmonkey]

This didn't last long:

Raphael 9.8 SS WP

...about 20 minutes

But this one is still there(?):

Raphael 9.8 SS with remark but OW

 

[pubmonkey]

13 hours ago, Subby1938 said:

Not sure I agree signatures after the fact are meaningless scribbles .

Not sure this is what @valiantman meant when he said "scribbled" as he didn't say meaningless. The comparison was for what epoch/era they were signed in and under what circumstances. I can imagine Kevin and Peter, wide eyed and excited about their new characters, signing comics at a convention, their hopes and dreams pinned to these books. But nowadays it's a money grab with a quick flick of the pen. 

[Subby1938]

I get it but a signature is a signature and sorry if I sound ignorant do we actually know when they signed interiors ? Or is it just an assumption ?

[pubmonkey]

1 minute ago, Subby1938 said:

I get it but a signature is a signature and sorry if I sound ignorant do we actually know when they signed interiors ? Or is it just an assumption ?

It's totally an assumption...and yes Signatures Series books are definitely more appealing than blue labels to most collectors, myself included. But, but, if I could get my hands on a #1 with dual interior sigs I would pay much more than if it were a yellow label without.

[pubmonkey]

The #3 'Laird's Photo' variant is the only copy that one could be forgiven for assuming it was signed at the 1985 NYCC. At that time it was not the book you would lug around to shows to get signed. So if it was signed it was likely, but not guaranteed, that it was signed at NYCC.

edit:

and people simply didn't sign covers in those days, they signed inside...

Edited July 3, 2021 by pubmonkey

[sorrenmj]

On 5/28/2021 at 3:57 AM, Icculus308win said:

The interior sigs I think are very cool for TMNT #1 in any print, great for a non SS fan (at least imho) and I’d think well liked for those who are. 
I owned a 9.6 with sigs just like that one from CC and my 9.8 has them on first page (att)
Personally I think they are a a total bonus to have - the two true undisputed creators/writers/artists sigs in there. (No contention by them or anyone  Not quite the case as we see and hear thru the years with Marvel characters or over with Kane=>Bill Finger) 

Monetarily…I just thought a little premium kinda like ow vs white pages with SA Marvels. But maybe are more valued/coveted or perhaps no correlation whatsoever. There are a decent number of first print #1s with their sigs out there. 

 

Hi

I have two copies of #1 (2nd print) one signed by KE/PL on the inside cover, which is very cool and one not, still cool. Both raw/ungraded. The signed version is perhaps a less grade than the non signed (some edge wear) but the non signed has a score mark across the cover, like something scraped against it while it was bagged, which is noticeable in the light but no colour break but otherwise very clean and nice edges. I’m possibly thinking of selling one copy. Which would be the one to keep? The signed or not signed? Any suggestions greatly received. Thank you!

[Subby1938]

1 hour ago, pubmonkey said:

The #3 'Laird's Photo' variant is the only copy that one could be forgiven for assuming it was signed at the 1985 NYCC. At that time it was not the book you would lug around to shows to get signed. So if it was signed it was likely, but not guaranteed, that it was signed at NYCC.

edit:

and people simply didn't sign covers in those days, they signed inside...

Understood me personally I’m not spending thousands on a maybe it was . I’m happy with one signed whenever . Save me some money as well I do understand the allure to a book to a collector that has it all ….

[sorrenmj]

21 minutes ago, sorrenmj said:

Hi

I have two copies of #1 (2nd print) one signed by KE/PL on the inside cover, which is very cool and one not, still cool. Both raw/ungraded. The signed version is perhaps a less grade than the non signed (some edge wear) but the non signed has a score mark across the cover, like something scraped against it while it was bagged, which is noticeable in the light but no colour break but otherwise very clean and nice edges. I’m possibly thinking of selling one copy. Which would be the one to keep? The signed or not signed? Any suggestions greatly received. Thank you!

Picture of signatures 

[Jaydogrules]

Evidently a 9.8 copy of a #1 first print has sold privately for $200k on a Facebook group...

-J.

[Subby1938]

I’d that’s true all

grades and prints will start to pull upwards again. That’s huge if confirmed 

[pubmonkey]

15 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Evidently a 9.8 copy of a #1 first print has sold privately for $200k on a Facebook group...

-J.

that's huge...

any way to confirm it?

[pubmonkey]

46 minutes ago, sorrenmj said:

Picture of signatures 

Which one do you like better? I'm partial to the copy with interior sigs, the big, straight, beautiful interior sigs with Peter's standing out like a champ.

I have to admit that I don't own a #1 with interior sigs but that was more about availability at the time I was in the market for one than preference.

[sorrenmj]

Just now, pubmonkey said:

Which one do you like better? I'm partial to the copy with interior sigs, the big, straight, beautiful interior sigs with Peter's standing out like a champ.

I have to admit that I don't own a #1 with interior sigs but that was more about availability at the time I was in the market for one than preference.

I think I prefer the signature versions as I swear this copy would have been signed at an early comic con when the second print was launched. I like that Pete’s signature is in purple pen. I also think a signed inside copy for the early prints is as close to the earliest tmnt days as they get