The January 2023 HA auction starting to load up 2 2

[gumbydarnit]

You wonder if we Bronze age kids, who’s first art love were Byrne, Miller and Perez, aren’t as apt to go hard after the older art of Kirby, Ditko, Adams. As the collectors of silver age art wind it down, you get a bit softer demand for their work.

Maybe ten years from now the Lee, Kieth, McFarlane markets reach their peak as the Byrne, Miller, Perez market softens. 

[heartened]

On 1/13/2023 at 10:40 AM, tth2 said:

It's one of the most iconic covers from the Cockrum run.

In reality, there aren't many great first run cockrum covers that are deep-seated in our memory.  This was one of them.  I believe it's more the cache of the large images of the sentinels that was so cool on this one, despite the smaller figures.  Wolverine is there as an after thought since he wasn't a very important or developed character back then, but it's nice to have him on this one regardless!

[heartened]

On 1/13/2023 at 1:41 PM, Bronty said:

Turtles 8 cover for 78k… thoughts?    I might have expected higher but in fairness it’s not the first cover one would choose and it was noticeably  faded

First cover to be available.  Probably no one knew where to bid.  I think it's a pretty strong price, but I wouldn't have been surprised at 100.  In a few years, this will seem VERY cheap and a missed opportunity for some.

[heartened]

On 1/13/2023 at 3:23 PM, delekkerste said:

Well, as someone noted to me today, the #1 is the #1, and there's only so much people will pay for any of the others. 

I didn't really notice the fading, tbh. It presented well enough to me. 

Personally, 1 through 4 were very memorable and were part of the early run that was hard to find and almost made them famous, so those are the key historic covers and issues IMO.  They were also, if I recall, the ones that were oversized somewhat compared to the rest.  I think for those reasons they "should" command the highest prices.  But of course this is all subjective, and I too remember the 5 and 8 quite fondly.  I think this 8 cover was a very good deal, and someone is a very happy fan!

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/14/2023 at 1:33 PM, Dirtcheap31 said:

I don’t think so could be wrong here but some artists for comics like Frank Miller have been exhibited at the Louvre maybe some comic strip art has as well but not that I am aware of. Some comic strips do have some staying power such as peanuts but comics are known globally and I still think the market will grow as more and more people find out you can own the original pages. What I am concerned about more than the above is artists are going digital and I don’t know if this will make originals more or less valuable or have zero effect. But either way I collect what I love and display important pieces I love so the value although nice and some what important is not the primary driver. My favorite pages I wouldn’t not let go for any amount of money… well maybe not any…:)

Many Comic strip artists were world renowned in the first half of the 20th century. Strips like MR. Tracy and Li’l Abner were massive pop culture icons. Ask anyone under 30 if they ever heard of L’il Abner or any of that cast of characters. Or Pogo. Or Joe Palooka. 
 

Think how cheap you can get a Terry & the Pirates or Pogo strip today.

 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:38 PM, heartened said:

First cover to be available.  Probably no one knew where to bid.  I think it's a pretty strong price, but I wouldn't have been surprised at 100.  In a few years, this will seem VERY cheap and a missed opportunity for some.

That Chris Ware New Yorker Cover is going to be worth half a million dollars in 10 years. 

[buttock]

On 1/14/2023 at 5:33 PM, heartened said:

Agree they went cheap relatively, but the 100K was probably accurate at the time, when that double spread went for 1.2 million.  It's hard to know where the Frankenstein plates will go in the future since they are tangential to comic art and the fan base is more limited.  I suspect they will still gradually rise but not at the rate of mainstream comic art.  If someone wanted a published plate this was a good time to grab one.  That all being said, neither were very memorable scenes in the book.

I was happy with the prices.  I thought that they reflected the influences Wrightson was trying to emulate well.  One was very JC Coll and the other was very Franklin Booth. Knowing what Wrightson was going for, they were good representative pieces.  And they don't exactly grow on trees.  

[Xatari]

On 1/14/2023 at 5:01 PM, PhilipB2k17 said:

That Chris Ware New Yorker Cover is going to be worth half a million dollars in 10 years. 

I’m not familiar, but would you be so kind as to explain why you believe that to be true?

[tth2]

On 1/15/2023 at 9:00 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

Think how cheap you can get a Terry & the Pirates or Pogo strip today.

Define "cheap", because Terrys haven't been cheap, in my opinion, for a couple of years now.  Dragon Lady appearances can easily go 5-figures, as can strips from the first year. 

[delekkerste]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:59 PM, tth2 said:

Define "cheap", because Terrys haven't been cheap, in my opinion, for a couple of years now.  Dragon Lady appearances can easily go 5-figures, as can strips from the first year. 

Yeah, but if you exclude Dragon Lady strips, this is where the last batch of them sold last Wednesday:

$1440, $1320, $960, $1140, $1320, $504

And the strips from the week before that:

$2280, $840, $1020, $2160, $900, $630, $504, $607, $384

[comiconxion]

On 1/14/2023 at 4:47 PM, heartened said:

Personally, 1 through 4 were very memorable and were part of the early run that was hard to find and almost made them famous, so those are the key historic covers and issues IMO.  They were also, if I recall, the ones that were oversized somewhat compared to the rest.  I think for those reasons they "should" command the highest prices.  But of course this is all subjective, and I too remember the 5 and 8 quite fondly.  I think this 8 cover was a very good deal, and someone is a very happy fan!

First, anyone in interested in early Turtles art should find a copy of Kevin Eastman's Artobiography that was published in 2002.  Kevin did a great job of preserving images of the early original Turtles art and printed them in that book.

1) Is the color on the Turtles #8 cover faded? - In the book, Kevin shows a pic of the original painting (see below).  It clearly shows that the brick walls were colored purple similar to the printed comic book.  That purple has faded as well as some of the other darker tones.  Still looks like a great painting, but different than than the printed book.

2) Are the first 4 covers "larger" than the later issues? - It's natural to assume this since they were printed larger, but in fact, the originals that I've seen for #1 & 3 (also drawn by Kevin) were the same size as the printed comic books.  The covers that followed including Raphael, #1 (4th Printing), and #5 were the same size as those (although #1 (4th) and #5 were printed modern comic book size vs. Golden Age size).  Based on the dimensions provided by Heritage, this #8 cover was only slightly larger with a 17" x 13" image.  That's the same size as the original art to Laird's Donatello cover which was published around the same time.  The largest published cover images from around this time that I know of (outside of some one-off pieces they did for conventions and specialty projects) were covers to the the First Comics reprints of the original series that were done in 1987 by Kevin.  Those four paintings measure 18" x 13", but are front cover images only vs. wraparound covers.  

It certainly went for more than the color version of the #5 which sold for #28k at Hake's in 2021.   But, I agree, in general, I think you won't see another "strong" early Turtles cover sell for less than 6 figures in years to come in another does come to market.

Edited January 15, 2023 by comiconxion

[Bronty]

Great info thanks Chuck

[Bronty]

On 1/13/2023 at 3:54 PM, mxs7 said:

The colors weren't just darkened when printed. As Gene mentions, in some areas they were also changed, so there were some drastic divergences from the original art. So the fading is speculation, the suggestion of which I hope did not impact the bidding. The original is certainly gorgeous and presents much better than the printed cover.

Still speculation? 

[tth2]

On 1/15/2023 at 10:19 AM, delekkerste said:

On 1/15/2023 at 9:59 AM, tth2 said:

Define "cheap", because Terrys haven't been cheap, in my opinion, for a couple of years now.  Dragon Lady appearances can easily go 5-figures, as can strips from the first year. 

Yeah, but if you exclude Dragon Lady strips, this is where the last batch of them sold last Wednesday:

$1440, $1320, $960, $1140, $1320, $504

And the strips from the week before that:

$2280, $840, $1020, $2160, $900, $630, $504, $607, $384

The never ending stream of strips from the Bobby Murphy collection definitely has started to take its toll on the average and below average pieces.  I'm now having to do a much stricter analysis of each strip by factoring in the year, characters present, GGA-ness, action and even amount of blue shading, than I was two years ago, because I can't afford to bid as aggressively on everything as I used to because there's a whole lot more of everything than there used to be.  I hate that I've become the kind of J. Evans Pritchard OA collector that I used to make fun of, but there's no choice in the face of infinite supply and very finite funds.  

The volume has also resulted in a real two- or three-tier market, with everyone keeping their powder dry to go after the same premium strips, resulting in significantly higher prices for the best pieces compared to several years ago and lower prices for everything else compared to several years ago, particularly the later strips from the 1940s.  

[zhamlau]

Well my three pieces are coming up tomorrow, each with a lot of watchers but still catastrophic low. Hoping for auction wars lol.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:47 PM, Xatari said:

I’m not familiar, but would you be so kind as to explain why you believe that to be true?

Just my opinion, of course. But Ware is one of those "comic" artists who have broken out into the fine art realm. And his New Yorker Covers are particularly desirable, if not yet on the plane of his Jimmy Corrigan work. I just think that eventually, if people want a really god Ware example, they will start looking at his non Jimmy Work and bid those prices up considerably. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/15/2023 at 1:03 AM, tth2 said:

The never ending stream of strips from the Bobby Murphy collection definitely has started to take its toll on the average and below average pieces.  I'm now having to do a much stricter analysis of each strip by factoring in the year, characters present, GGA-ness, action and even amount of blue shading, than I was two years ago, because I can't afford to bid as aggressively on everything as I used to because there's a whole lot more of everything than there used to be.  I hate that I've become the kind of J. Evans Pritchard OA collector that I used to make fun of, but there's no choice in the face of infinite supply and very finite funds.  

The volume has also resulted in a real two- or three-tier market, with everyone keeping their powder dry to go after the same premium strips, resulting in significantly higher prices for the best pieces compared to several years ago and lower prices for everything else compared to several years ago, particularly the later strips from the 1940s.  

This is my point. The market is saturated with this art, and the number of collectors of it has significantly diminished over the past 30-40 years. So, the premium, best example piece will sell high, but the rest is going to keep on dropping. Unless these pieces break out into the fine art realm, which is unlikely. I can see the Winsor McCay, Alex Raymond or Hal Foster strips getting there possibly, however do=ue to their intrinsic quality. But again, this is my point. The "winners" will be based on mostly on aesthetics, and not necessarily on characters or story, or even popular culture. 

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/14/2023 at 7:33 PM, gumbydarnit said:

You wonder if we Bronze age kids, who’s first art love were Byrne, Miller and Perez, aren’t as apt to go hard after the older art of Kirby, Ditko, Adams. As the collectors of silver age art wind it down, you get a bit softer demand for their work.

Maybe ten years from now the Lee, Kieth, McFarlane markets reach their peak as the Byrne, Miller, Perez market softens. 

I think Kirby has broken through to all collectors now. Ditko Spidey and Dr. Strange, for sure. But, I think the Adams market is eventually going to soften, as his "style" has basically taken over modern comic art. Virtually everyone who draws modern comics (with some notable exceptions) are in the Adams/Jim Lee style of technical proficiency and layouts. Adams just doesn't stand out like he used to. That said, there are still a reservoir of collectors who recognize his impact and want a nice piece by him. But over time that will soften, I think.

Ironically, I think guys like Sal Buscema might start getting more love from collectors, simply because he embodied Marvel's house style in the 70's and 80's, and worked on virtually every book in the stable. Especially the word balloon examples. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by PhilipB2k17

[delekkerste]

On 1/15/2023 at 1:03 AM, tth2 said:

I hate that I've become the kind of J. Evans Pritchard OA collector that I used to make fun of, but there's no choice in the face of infinite supply and very finite funds.

I will soon be launching a Zoom class on comic art connoisseurship and will be teaching from the J. Evans Pritchard handbook. The cost will be $999 but you can sign up now for the discounted price of $749. 

Edited January 15, 2023 by delekkerste

[PhilipB2k17]

On 1/13/2023 at 4:18 PM, batman_fan said:

They were in the last auction too.  This piece sold for $24k in Nov 2022.  A 1952 piece with that very early Schulz artwork and a great golf bit.

I expected at least $40k.  Why does it not reside in my collection you ask.  I had a meeting during the auction and got distracted  

No Snoopy