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The January 2023 HA auction starting to load up
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Started by batman_fan,

411 posts in this topic

TMNT

TMNT

Posted
Posted
On 1/14/2023 at 10:51 PM, comiconxion said:

The largest published cover images from around this time that I know of (outside of some one-off pieces they did for conventions and specialty projects) were covers to the the First Comics reprints of the original series that were done in 1987 by Kevin.  Those four paintings measure 18" x 13", but are front cover images only vs. wraparound covers.  

 

Good summary of the cover situation, Chuck.

I'll only add that cover size for the published early E&L issues 1-11, much like the interior pages themselves, were generally of various dimensions. They did seem to get bigger as the years went on. Regarding some of the larger wrap around covers from this period:

The TMNT Adventures RPG cover was 13 X 20:

image.jpeg.cc0f3c807d5f8dff44e5677cda72d94e.jpeg

the issue 1-11 Omnibus cover was a bit bigger at 13 X 27:

image.jpeg.c1c6cbbd34938f5747a36f5fd6e23941.jpeg

and issue #11 was the largest at 18 X 24.

image.jpeg.aa9f021b937ec9f4e217b98b2c392812.jpeg

These are the finished images, boards a bit bigger.  

 

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heartened

heartened

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On 1/14/2023 at 10:51 PM, comiconxion said:

First, anyone in interested in early Turtles art should find a copy of Kevin Eastman's Artobiography that was published in 2002.  Kevin did a great job of preserving images of the early original Turtles art and printed them in that book.

1) Is the color on the Turtles #8 cover faded? - In the book, Kevin shows a pic of the original painting (see below).  It clearly shows that the brick walls were colored purple similar to the printed comic book.  That purple has faded as well as some of the other darker tones.  Still looks like a great painting, but different than than the printed book.

2) Are the first 4 covers "larger" than the later issues? - It's natural to assume this since they were printed larger, but in fact, the originals that I've seen for #1 & 3 (also drawn by Kevin) were the same size as the printed comic books.  The covers that followed including Raphael, #1 (4th Printing), and #5 were the same size as those (although #1 (4th) and #5 were printed modern comic book size vs. Golden Age size).  Based on the dimensions provided by Heritage, this #8 cover was only slightly larger with a 17" x 13" image.  That's the same size as the original art to Laird's Donatello cover which was published around the same time.  The largest published cover images from around this time that I know of (outside of some one-off pieces they did for conventions and specialty projects) were covers to the the First Comics reprints of the original series that were done in 1987 by Kevin.  Those four paintings measure 18" x 13", but are front cover images only vs. wraparound covers.  

It certainly went for more than the color version of the #5 which sold for #28k at Hake's in 2021.   But, I agree, in general, I think you won't see another "strong" early Turtles cover sell for less than 6 figures in years to come in another does come to market.

Turtles8.jpg

You're always a fountain of truth, my friend!

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heartened

heartened

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On 1/15/2023 at 9:43 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

I think Kirby has broken through to all collectors now. Ditko Spidey and Dr. Strange, for sure. But, I think the Adams market is eventually going to soften, as his "style" has basically taken over modern comic art. Virtually everyone who draws modern comics (with some notable exceptions) are in the Adams/Jim Lee style of technical proficiency and layouts. Adams just doesn't stand out like he used to. That said, there are still a reservoir of collectors who recognize his impact and want a nice piece by him. But over time that will soften, I think.

Ironically, I think guys like Sal Buscema might start getting more love from collectors, simply because he embodied Marvel's house style in the 70's and 80's, and worked on virtually every book in the stable. Especially the word balloon examples. 

This is probably true.  Steranko stands out as more surreal and only duplicated recently to some extent by Tradd Moore.  And I do agree that the house style is fun and more classic, and so Buscema gets some love.  But, the three main marvel style artists IMO with that style have always been Romita, J. Buscema and M Severin.  They did classic Marvel the best and it's no wonder they have so many of the best/classic covers.

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mxs7

mxs7

Posted
Posted
On 1/14/2023 at 9:51 PM, comiconxion said:

First, anyone in interested in early Turtles art should find a copy of Kevin Eastman's Artobiography that was published in 2002.  Kevin did a great job of preserving images of the early original Turtles art and printed them in that book.

1) Is the color on the Turtles #8 cover faded? - In the book, Kevin shows a pic of the original painting (see below).  It clearly shows that the brick walls were colored purple similar to the printed comic book.  That purple has faded as well as some of the other darker tones.  Still looks like a great painting, but different than than the printed book.

2) Are the first 4 covers "larger" than the later issues? - It's natural to assume this since they were printed larger, but in fact, the originals that I've seen for #1 & 3 (also drawn by Kevin) were the same size as the printed comic books.  The covers that followed including Raphael, #1 (4th Printing), and #5 were the same size as those (although #1 (4th) and #5 were printed modern comic book size vs. Golden Age size).  Based on the dimensions provided by Heritage, this #8 cover was only slightly larger with a 17" x 13" image.  That's the same size as the original art to Laird's Donatello cover which was published around the same time.  The largest published cover images from around this time that I know of (outside of some one-off pieces they did for conventions and specialty projects) were covers to the the First Comics reprints of the original series that were done in 1987 by Kevin.  Those four paintings measure 18" x 13", but are front cover images only vs. wraparound covers.  

It certainly went for more than the color version of the #5 which sold for #28k at Hake's in 2021.   But, I agree, in general, I think you won't see another "strong" early Turtles cover sell for less than 6 figures in years to come in another does come to market.

Turtles8.jpg

Chuck, thanks for this, even if it does make me more confused! The printed comic cover is much darker than the image you show of the original painting from Kevin's book, so the painting image is different from the printed cover (assuming the image is color correct in Kevin's book). The image from Kevin's book is darker than the image from Heritage, and the purple is largely absent from the Heritage image. The photo below is of the original art taken before it was sent to Heritage and appears to be somewhere between the image in Kevin's book and the Heritage image (although purple is largely absent in this photo as well). I know at least one color image of a different original for this Heritage auction had to be corrected after it was posted, so I suspect the Heritage image is too light. I hope at some point the buyer will weigh in, having the original art in hand to look at.

On another point, I think part of the reason for the price difference between the TMNT 5 color cover and the 8 is the 8 is all original art while the 5 is a hand painted photocopy. 

Again, Chuck, thanks for the info!

 

TMNT 8 Cover Original Post.jpg

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delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/15/2023 at 12:39 PM, mxs7 said:

Chuck, thanks for this, even if it does make me more confused! The printed comic cover is much darker than the image you show of the original painting from Kevin's book, so the painting image is different from the printed cover (assuming the image is color correct in Kevin's book). The image from Kevin's book is darker than the image from Heritage, and the purple is largely absent from the Heritage image. The photo below is of the original art taken before it was sent to Heritage and appears to be somewhere between the image in Kevin's book and the Heritage image (although purple is largely absent in this photo as well). I know at least one color image of a different original for this Heritage auction had to be corrected after it was posted, so I suspect the Heritage image is too light. I hope at some point the buyer will weigh in, having the original art in hand to look at.

On another point, I think part of the reason for the price difference between the TMNT 5 color cover and the 8 is the 8 is all original art while the 5 is a hand painted photocopy. 

Again, Chuck, thanks for the info!

 

TMNT 8 Cover Original Post.jpg

I think it's clear that the published cover is not color correct. And, based on your photo above, I would also question how accurately the colors were reproduced in Kevin's 21-year old book and on HA's website. 🤔

Also looking at your photo, it doesn't look like there was much fading at all - certainly not enough to trouble me if I was the buyer (which I unfortunately was not). Presents really well IMO.

Edited by delekkerste
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TMNT

TMNT

Posted
Posted
On 1/15/2023 at 12:39 PM, mxs7 said:

The printed comic cover is much darker than the image you show of the original painting from Kevin's book, so the painting image is different from the printed cover (assuming the image is color correct in Kevin's book). 

It was frequently the case where the original paintings appear much brighter in person than what was actually published on the comics so I wouldn't worry about that. 

Its interesting though, that I have specifically seen that "purple disappearance" on a finished painting vs the published image twice now with this piece. Where the original looks almost grey but the published is brighter purple. That said, doesn't take away at all from this amazing piece. So few of these covers ever see the light of day. 

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Rick2you2

Rick2you2

Posted
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On 1/15/2023 at 9:43 AM, PhilipB2k17 said:

I think Kirby has broken through to all collectors now. Ditko Spidey and Dr. Strange, for sure. But, I think the Adams market is eventually going to soften, as his "style" has basically taken over modern comic art. Virtually everyone who draws modern comics (with some notable exceptions) are in the Adams/Jim Lee style of technical proficiency and layouts. Adams just doesn't stand out like he used to. That said, there are still a reservoir of collectors who recognize his impact and want a nice piece by him. But over time that will soften, I think.

Ironically, I think guys like Sal Buscema might start getting more love from collectors, simply because he embodied Marvel's house style in the 70's and 80's, and worked on virtually every book in the stable. Especially the word balloon examples. 

I am still not a Kirby fan. To me, most of it still looks too cluttered and rushed.

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trimpehulk

trimpehulk

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Posted
On 1/15/2023 at 2:55 PM, KirbyCollector said:

Sal B and Sinnott Hulk 277 page goes for $11,400 w/BP... great full transformation panel up top, thought I might have a chance at 7500... nope 😆 

Never underestimate the power of the U-Foes a very early appearance.

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drdonaldblake1

drdonaldblake1

Posted
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On 1/16/2023 at 6:55 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Sal B and Sinnott Hulk 277 page goes for $11,400 w/BP... great full transformation panel up top, thought I might have a chance at 7500... nope 😆 

This was a very nice hulk transformation page, I thought $10k would get it......just missed out😕

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zhamlau

zhamlau

Posted
Posted
On 1/13/2023 at 1:29 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

$46K for the Sal Buscema Spec Spidey cover - Gobby vs Spidey

 

You know…It’s like ARTSOC doesn’t even matter to you people anymore. I mean, we have spent YEARS now denigrating and putting “The Average” in his place, yet this…keeps…happening...

We had agreed many moons ago that “he who must not be praised” art was throughly unremarkable and pedestrian. Completely “average at best” and with no great importance or desirability. The science was settled! 
 

And yet here we are…again…having our unquestioned expertise being completely ignored if not outright rejected. 46k, before tax no less, on a freaking 90’s COVER?!? Are you people even trying anymore?

The out right scorn and derisive commentary about “The Mario Mendoza of comics” has been sorely lacking on this board for the last few months, hence this disaster was sadly very predictable. We expect more from you people and are throughly disappointed in the movement right now.

 

 

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tth2

tth2

Posted
Posted
On 1/16/2023 at 10:14 PM, zhamlau said:

You know…It’s like ARTSOC doesn’t even matter to you people anymore. I mean, we have spent YEARS now denigrating and putting “The Average” in his place, yet this…keeps…happening...

We had agreed many moons ago that “he who must not be praised” art was throughly unremarkable and pedestrian. Completely “average at best” and with no great importance or desirability. The science was settled! 
 

And yet here we are…again…having our unquestioned expertise being completely ignored if not outright rejected. 46k, before tax no less, on a freaking 90’s COVER?!? Are you people even trying anymore?

The out right scorn and derisive commentary about “The Mario Mendoza of comics” has been sorely lacking on this board for the last few months, hence this disaster was sadly very predictable. We expect more from you people and are throughly disappointed in the movement right now.

 

 

That's why it's called a bubble. (shrug)

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