Dilemma - Another collector had prelim to my piece inked, latest owner says mine is a blueline with no pencils 3 3

[malvin]

Here is my story

I have Kevin Maguire Booster Gold and Blue Beetle original pencil and ink piece original of a print of it to sell at conventions.

Kevin sold the prelim separately, and another collector had the prelim inked by Mark Farmer. It got sold a few times and eventually went to auction. I told the auction house that the piece being auctioned was an inked prelim, the consignor double down and said his piece is the true pencil piece, since you can still see the pencils, whereas mine is lightboxed/bluelined because you can no longer see pencils. You can actually see pencils on mine, but it is faint since pencils are usually erased when inked, as experienced collectors would know. I should have pushed harder but that was that.

I did run into Kevin at a con recently, and I had him confirm that mine is pencils and inks and he kindly signed the back attesting to that. Here is my piece on CAF (and I've added extra images showing pencils and Kevin's note note on the back)

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1143049

The latest owner just posted his piece, and he repeated the auction house description (that mine has no pencils). Maybe my comment and message to him was a bit strong, but he said he just wants to be let alone to enjoy his piece, and asked me to delete my comment.

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=2009545

Let me add that I don't blame the original collector for inking a prelim (I've done it, although in my case it was an abandoned prelim with no "published" piece). I don't blame the current collector as he is new, but the entire situation is frustrating since my piece is now impugned. And I also get that with prelims, they can get inked to create duplicates (I recall hearing one artist not selling prelims for that very reason)

Heck, this exact same issue was why I bought a partially inked prelim to a piece I already have, so that no one gets it fully inked to confuse what I have:

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=906811

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=882380

He is probably reading this and I know he has friends on this board. What do to?  Ask him to change his description and I'll delete the comment? He is still convinced that his piece is more legitimate than mine, since you can't see pencils on mine.

Malvin

 

 

Edited April 7 by malvin

[The Voord]

On 4/7/2024 at 5:49 PM, malvin said:

 

He is probably reading this and I know he has friends on this board. What do to?  Ask him to change his description and I'll delete the comment? He is still convinced that his piece is more legitimate than mine, since you can't see pencils on mine.

Malvin

 

 

This.

[Captain ShipWreck]

At this point, you've put it out there and brought some attention to the situation. Not much more you can do at this point. At the end of the day he will see your information and feel how he feels about the piece (which you can't change) and the community will decide what they feel is the "legitimate piece". You could ask him to change his description or talk to his friends but I wouldn't expect much from that.

[MAR1979]

While I genuinely hope I am wrong, but based on the actions already I'd expect the newb to do the most vile thing possible. All due to lack of knowledge on the newb's part and unwillingness to believe they were in effect defrauded directly or indirectly by the entity that they purchased it from.
 

 

Edited April 7 by MAR1979

[cloud cloddie]

On 4/7/2024 at 11:42 AM, MAR1979 said:

 All due to lack of knowledge on the newb's part and unwillingness to believe they were in effect defrauded directly or indirectly by the entity that they purchased it from.
 

 

Basically this. Seems he doesn’t want to accept he might’ve overpaid for a piece that isn’t what it was described as. And he might be too new to the hobby to understand auction houses are often not accurate. 
 

Regardless, I like your piece better. Mostly because whatever that pocket thing is on Blue Beetle’s waist, it looks like b**ls on his piece. I thought it was nsfw at first. 👀

[JC25427N]

On 4/7/2024 at 3:34 PM, cloud cloddie said:

 

Regardless, I like your piece better. Mostly because whatever that pocket thing is on Blue Beetle’s waist, it looks like b**ls on his piece. I thought it was nsfw at first. 👀

As much as I value your opinion, I think I need a professional's take on this. Paging @Dr. Balls 

[Latverian Tourism Board]

On 4/7/2024 at 3:34 PM, cloud cloddie said:

Basically this. Seems he doesn’t want to accept he might’ve overpaid for a piece that isn’t what it was described as. And he might be too new to the hobby to understand auction houses are often not accurate. 
 

Regardless, I like your piece better. Mostly because whatever that pocket thing is on Blue Beetle’s waist, it looks like b**ls on his piece. I thought it was nsfw at first. 👀

Look like those berries grew without any twig, too…👀 

[thehumantorch]

Don't back down Malvin.  Leave your comment up, it's important that people know the truth.

[Will_K]

@malvin You're educating a new collector about their new purchase.  You're educating others about your old purchase.  No need to censor yourself.

[malvin]

Thanks all. I actually deleted my comments on his CAF piece after he removed the description that says mine has no pencils.

He is still convinced that his could be real and no one really knows, even though I got Maguire to verify mine.

Malvin

[MAR1979]

BTW the dude could have simply removed the comments himself. All he had to do was crack open his wallet and upgrade his moocher level membership to premium level. $75 dollars and well worth it! Especially given all Bill Cox has done for the hobby the past 21 years

 

Edited April 8 by MAR1979

[Dr. Balls]

On 4/7/2024 at 1:43 PM, JC25427N said:

As much as I value your opinion, I think I need a professional's take on this. Paging @Dr. Balls 

On 4/7/2024 at 8:28 PM, malvin said:

He is still convinced that his could be real and no one really knows, even though I got Maguire to verify mine.

Seriously? He thinks that? They are two different pieces, and yours is a direct representation of the final piece. His piece has a bunch of extra linework in the shoulders/chest and has different brush strokes on the face. 

[Dr. Balls]

He has - what I would refer to as - a remarked preliminary an inked preliminary. If he is holding steady to saying things like “no one really knows”, he is likely trying to angle in for a future sale to someone who wouldn’t know yours (Malvin’s) is out there. There is unequivocal, obvious and viewable proof to which one is the original artwork - above and beyond the artists statement on the backside. 

Edited April 8 by Dr. Balls
Fixed incorrect classification of art

[malvin]

On 4/7/2024 at 7:50 PM, Dr. Balls said:

He has - what I would refer to as - a remarked preliminary. If he is holding steady to saying things like “no one really knows”, he is likely trying to angle in for a future sale to someone who wouldn’t know yours (Malvin’s) is out there. There is unequivocal, obvious and viewable proof to which one is the original artwork - above and beyond the artists statement on the backside. 

Thanks Jason, especially on doing all that comparison work. I don't think he is angling for resale, he just believes what the auction listing said. He doesn't even believe the Kevin Maguire note, he says too bad we won't have a chance to show Kevin Maguire both pieces at once

Malvin

[Matches_Malone]

If the auction said it, it must be true. ( bwa ha ha )

[MAR1979]

On 4/8/2024 at 7:20 AM, Matches_Malone said:

If the auction said it, it must be true. ( bwa ha ha )

They are nearly as trustworthy as a used car dealership owned by a local politician 

[MOStateSuperman]

The inked prelim is different enough from the final that I would have questions about whether it was the original or some kind of recreation. Any amount of research would have brought your original up. This is one of the things I like most about having a resource like CAF out there. 

Edited April 8 by MOStateSuperman

[cstojano]

simplest proof is midline on the foreheard and whether it connects or not. 

[JadeGiant]

As newbs, we all make mistakes, get "had" on a seller not providing all information on a piece, etc. It is all part of learning the hobby. There's no shame so I am not sure why the collector doesn't just own it and move forward. If it were mine, I would credit the piece correctly as a prelim inked by another artist (where is the credit to Mark Farmer?) and move on. I might even have it colored to further distinguish it from the art used on the print. 

Edited April 11 by JadeGiant

[Dr. Balls]

On 4/8/2024 at 8:29 AM, JadeGiant said:

As newbs, we all make mistakes, get "had" on a seller not providing all information on a piece, etc. It is all part of learning the hobby. There's no shame so I am not sure why the collector doesn't just own it and move forward.

Oh yeah, no kidding. I have a couple pieces that sellers, dealers, auction houses played a little fast-and-loose with the provenance only to find out that they were not published as claimed or alluded to. And you're right - you just shrug your shoulders and move on.

Everyone is different, but for me - If I truly like a piece enough to buy it, it doesn't make it any less cool when you find out the true history behind it. Sure, when you find out it's unpublished and you paid published price for it, that's the part that burns - but in the end, you still have a great piece of artwork.