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USAGE GUIDELINES - comment thread
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Started by Architecht,

1,589 posts in this topic

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Architecht

Architecht

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The problems are:

 

1. Legal issues with raffles and giveaways. We're not going to deal with them, and yet the mystery box threads keep straying into that territory.

 

2, It's becoming a frequent source of escalation to determine whether some new innovative marketing twists is creating "lucky winner" syndrome.

 

3. The high potential for disputes and problems if these formats proliferate because of the higher need to trust the seller to deliver something of value.

 

If someone lists a grade, posts a picture and names a price - the buyers can make their own evaluation of whether it's worth it or not - maybe there is a legitimate case for why that offering is worth $X or worth $Y - but if the buyer and seller don't agree then the transaction never has to happen. It's still not perfect, but there is much less territory for dispute than in a "mystery" box.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A man bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100. The farmer agreed to deliver the donkey the next day.

 

Come morning, the farmer drove up and said, "Sorry, but I've got some bad news. The donkey died."

 

"Well then, just give me my money back."

 

"Can't do that. I spent it already," replied the farmer.

 

"OK then, just unload the donkey."

 

"What're you gonna do with him?" asked the farmer.

 

"I'm gonna raffle him off."

 

"Ya can't raffle off a dead donkey!" exclaimed the farmer.

 

"Sure I can. Watch me. I just won't tell anyone he's dead."

 

A month later the farmer met up with the guy and asked about what happened with the dead donkey. "I raffled him off. I sold 500 tickets at $2 apiece and made a profit of $898."

 

"Didn't no one complain?" asked the farmer.

 

"Just the guy who won. So I gave him his $2 back."

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comicalgems

comicalgems

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Posted (edited)

Fwiw the "Private Party" evolved out of the free gifts I did last summer during my birthday week. Gave stuff away for free to anyone that wanted something free. No purchase required.

 

What I do there (in the private party) is give EVERY buyer something for free. Shipped separately from any purchased items.

Edited by comicalgems
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vaillant

vaillant

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Fwiw the "Private Party" evolved out of the free gifts I did last summer during my birthday week. Gave stuff away for free to anyone that wanted something free. No purchase required.

 

What I do there (in the private party) is give EVERY buyer something for free. Shipped separately from any purchased items.

 

I can confirm that happened exactly as he said. (thumbs u

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Architecht

Architecht

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Here is a simplified test for whether it is a lottery:

 

Is a prize being offered?

Is there chance involved in the selection of the winner (i.e., drawing a ticket)?

Does the consumer have to buy something to enter the contest? (This is called "consideration" by the FCC.)

 

 

If all three = yes, then you are running a lottery.

 

If you give SOMETHING away to EVERYONE that buys, but the "something" varies in value, and the recipients are randomly selected, then it's still a prize and chance is involved. Otherwise it becomes "everyone gets a paperclip, and one person get Hulk #181" which is bogus.

 

If everyone got hulk#181, or everyone got a paper clip, that's different.

 

Determining the relative value of a bunch of different give away options becomes too subjective. It's hard to tell if you have a paperclip vs. hulk #181 situation or not.

 

Then the moderators want to stab an eye out with a fork. Probably mine.

 

 

But forget the give-away for a second, let's just focus on the mystery boxes.

 

If you could magically assure that all mystery boxes sold had identical value, then it might be ok. However, that is hard / impossible.

 

So even if everyone gets their money's worth, but someone gets a "prize" of a more desirable mystery box you have a problem. Equal value for equal consideration is the thing that avoids all whiff of "chance". If the boxes vary, but are all sold at a similar price, but everyone could examine the contents and buy only the boxes they wanted to buy (not a random assignment of the boxes) then ok. But that's not a mystery box, that's just bulk pricing.

 

However, although those three questions above are handy, we are not experts in making any final determination on what does or doesn't qualify. Thus, if it SMELLS like a raffle, it's out.

 

And mystery boxes are starting to smell bad.

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slym2none

slym2none

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What if I had a bunch of reader comics I want to sell, and offer it up as just one mystery box? Say it was a mix of modern, CA, and BA books, plus some TPBs, that would fill a Flat-Rate box, and I offered it for $25 shipped? Since there are no multiple boxes and I am giving an idea right off the bat what you are going to get, would that be a problem?

 

*looks at the box of stuff I have accumulating for just such a purpose*

 

 

 

-slym

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vaillant

vaillant

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As an example: if one wants to move inventory and makes a mystery box per character (i.e. Spider-Man) and states the most valuable book within (i.e. Amazing Spider-Man #13) and the rest is filled with Bronze or Copper issues of at least the box value, same thing with other characters, the boxes should not end up in conflict, as the perspective buyer is buying "per character" knowing he will get at least the ASM #13 and other issues to start his collection at a slightly discounted price.

 

This is theoretical, but I like this mystery box idea, so I was wondering if it could incur in the problems you have listed. :)

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vaillant

vaillant

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Rule #6 states "It must list specific books with purchase prices". How does a mystery box fall within this rule?

 

If listing specific books with purchase prices it would no longer be a mystery box… :shrug:

 

I think it’s up to arch and the admins to either revise the rules to have them clearly defined or decide to remove the possibility.

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comicalgems

comicalgems

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I generally post mine thusly:

 

Box 1 Includes Amazing Spider-Man 300

Box 2 Includes Batman 234

Box 3 Includes Spawn 1

Box 4 Includes New Mutants 98

Box 5 Total Mystery Til It Gets To You

Box 6 Total Mystery Til It Gets To You

 

And then will start revealing contents gradually.

 

I do different price levels because it's not realistic to sell a $400+ book in a $150 box. I've been doing these long enough to know.

 

A. They're popular

B. There's a demand

C. Price variation is important

 

29,000+ views on the thread that's open. There's 100+ sold in that thread alone.

 

At the end of the day I find and I've said this before...the biggest opponents to these threads are people that don't buy in them OR ANY other thread.

 

It's not fair to dismiss a popular selling format because a handful of people complain AND those complaining aren't actually participating in any form of commerce. I did a quick check on the people advocating them being banned in this thread and one person had their last sales thread almost a year ago, and the other was so long ago I didn't bother continuing to scroll backwards to find it.

 

Let me write a rules proposal for them before they are banned entirely and I promise it'll be fair and well away from anything resembling a lotto or raffle.

Edited by comicalgems
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vaillant

vaillant

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Rule #6 states "It must list specific books with purchase prices". How does a mystery box fall within this rule?

 

Good point

 

Good point for what? If they are meant to be "mystery boxes" the mystery is gone.

Because the single prices are not listed does not mean automatically that the boxes are conceived as raffles. :shrug:

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comicalgems

comicalgems

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Well thread killed. "Excessive bumping and advertising a mystery box site with a raffle/lottery"

 

I guess carrying on chat/input in ones own thread is excessive bumping at 2:00 am when no other threads are having activity anyway.

 

There's not an advertised lotto/raffle on my site either.

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

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Rule #6 states "It must list specific books with purchase prices". How does a mystery box fall within this rule?

 

Good point

 

Good point for what? If they are meant to be "mystery boxes" the mystery is gone.

Because the single prices are not listed does not mean automatically that the boxes are conceived as raffles. :shrug:

 

Rule 6 invalidates mystery boxes. (shrug)

 

 

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