The January 2023 HA auction starting to load up 2 2

[batman_fan]

The Frank Miller Wolverine page 

[Rob Frey]

132k for the x-men 26 cover makes the miller wolverine page look like a relative bargain

[g-man]

AF #15 cgc 9.2 for $810K seems like a good price? For the buyer that is. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by g-man

[jjonahjameson11]

On 1/12/2023 at 1:37 PM, batman_fan said:

The Frank Miller Wolverine page 

Gorgeous page!

[inovrmihd]

This is off topic, and maybe i misheard, but I think the auctioneer, when describing the  X-Men #1 comic, said that the price appreciated more than any other silver age comic since 2019, and if you want it to continue to go up, you have to bid.  So, irrelevant comment, or totally on point?

[J.Sid]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:37 AM, batman_fan said:

The Frank Miller Wolverine page 

That was a great Wolverine page.

Soooo..... Where does Wolverine stand in relation to Miller Daredevil? More expensive than regular DD pages but less expensive than DD pages with Elektra? (For as long as I've been collecting, it seems that really good DD pages, even without Elektra, have been more expensive than Wolverine pages.)

 

[Bronty]

On 1/12/2023 at 1:18 PM, batman_fan said:

The Frazzeta painting at $660k 

500+ sure doesn't buy what it used to in the frazetta market.   Oy vey.

[Bronty]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:48 PM, J.Sid said:

That was a great Wolverine page.

Soooo..... Where does Wolverine stand in relation to Miller Daredevil? More expensive than regular DD pages but less expensive than DD pages with Elektra? (For as long as I've been collecting, it seems that really good DD pages, even without Elektra, have been more expensive than Wolverine pages.)

 

Good question.    For my part I would have a lot of interest (though not at these prices..) in a wolverine LS page and much less interest in most daredevil pages.    that's just one person's opinion of course but it seems to me that wolverine has only become more important over time and daredevil is still daredevil (a 'B' marvel character - which is not a bad thing, heck its better than almost everything - except A characters like wolverine.).

Edited January 12, 2023 by Bronty

[Fischb1]

On 1/12/2023 at 5:22 PM, Bronty said:

Good question.    For my part I would have a lot of interest (though not at these prices..) in a wolverine LS page and much less interest in most daredevil pages.    that's just one person's opinion of course but it seems to me that wolverine has only become more important over time and daredevil is still daredevil (a 'B' marvel character - which is not a bad thing, heck its better than almost everything - except A characters like wolverine.).

I would agree with Bronty on most of what he said: I'd love a FM Wolverine page and have no interest in DD.

The only place I'd disagree is with calling Wolverine an A. I think there's a tier above A that has 4 or 5 characters in it. AAA++ or something. Wolverine, Spiderman, Hulk, maybe Captain America and Ironman (the last couple only since the movies). 

Because there's no doubt that Thor, Thanos, Silver-Surfer and Magneto are not B characters. They're all A. But they aren't A like Wolverine or Spiderman. 

[Bronty]

On 1/12/2023 at 5:29 PM, Fischb1 said:

I would agree with Bronty on most of what he said: I'd love a FM Wolverine page and have no interest in DD.

The only place I'd disagree is with calling Wolverine an A. I think there's a tier above A that has 4 or 5 characters in it. AAA++ or something. Wolverine, Spiderman, Hulk, maybe Captain America and Ironman (the last couple only since the movies). 

Because there's no doubt that Thor, Thanos, Silver-Surfer and Magneto are not B characters. They're all A. But they aren't A like Wolverine or Spiderman. 

Sure, the whole letter grade thing doesn't work real well to begin with, so I hear you.   You're right; Wolverine is A+ or A++ or whatever the highest grade possible is.

[J.Sid]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:22 PM, Bronty said:

Good question.    For my part I would have a lot of interest (though not at these prices..) in a wolverine LS page and much less interest in most daredevil pages.    that's just one person's opinion of course but it seems to me that wolverine has only become more important over time and daredevil is still daredevil (a 'B' marvel character - which is not a bad thing, heck its better than almost everything - except A characters like wolverine.).

Wolverine is of course the more popular character, however when it comes to Miller fans/collectors (the ones doing the buying), DD was always right up there or even a bit ahead IIRC. 

Would a great DD vs. Hand Ninjas action page sell for that amount? (150k)
If not, what about a great DD vs. the Punisher?
DD vs. Bullseye?

 

 

[Rick2you2]

On 1/12/2023 at 5:19 PM, Bronty said:

500+ sure doesn't buy what it used to in the frazetta market.   Oy vey.

It may have crossover appeal. The Flashman series was a big deal when it came out. If you don’t know of it, check out Wikipedia. Those books were great, starting with the first one and the British rout in Afganistan. As I recall, didn’t Kirby borrow that name in his Jimmy Olsen run, something like “Funky” Flashman?

[stinkininkin]

On 1/12/2023 at 3:14 PM, J.Sid said:

Wolverine is of course the more popular character, however when it comes to Miller fans/collectors (the ones doing the buying), DD was always right up there or even a bit ahead IIRC. 

Would a great DD vs. Hand Ninjas action page sell for that amount? (150k)
If not, what about a great DD vs. the Punisher?
DD vs. Bullseye?

 

 

Yeah, everyone has opinions, but as great as the Miller/Claremont Wolverine series was, the Miller/Janson DD run was transcendent at the time it came out. Wolverine will always be a more popular character than DD, but as important as the art is in this hobby, story matters, and the story revolving around DD/Electra/Bullseye/Kingpin trumps anything found in the Wolverine series IMHO. And I say this as an art collector who very early (1981) bought 3 gorgeous consecutive Wolverine #4 battle pages. I loved the stuff, but even then, I could see that the DD stuff was already a true classic run, while the Wolverine was just a rip roaring good adventure.  Like what you like, but personally, I value the DD stuff over the Wolverine stuff, both artistically and yes, in terms of what I'll pay. 

[Xatari]

Just catching up on all the Heritage hammers.  So much for that market retreat.  These prices are strong.  Time to start saving again.  

[delekkerste]

On 1/12/2023 at 7:00 PM, stinkininkin said:

Yeah, everyone has opinions, but as great as the Miller/Claremont Wolverine series was, the Miller/Janson DD run was transcendent at the time it came out. Wolverine will always be a more popular character than DD, but as important as the art is in this hobby, story matters, and the story revolving around DD/Electra/Bullseye/Kingpin trumps anything found in the Wolverine series IMHO. And I say this as an art collector who very early (1981) bought 3 gorgeous consecutive Wolverine #4 battle pages. I loved the stuff, but even then, I could see that the DD stuff was already a true classic run, while the Wolverine was just a rip roaring good adventure.  Like what you like, but personally, I value the DD stuff over the Wolverine stuff, both artistically and yes, in terms of what I'll pay. 

Absolutely, Scott. Miller's Daredevil run is exponentially more important than his work on the Wolverine series. If you took the latter off of Miller's resume completely, it would barely affect Miller's standing in the comic world. On the other hand, if you took away what he did on Daredevil, it would have a profound effect on his legacy. 

Dark Knight Returns and Daredevil are at the top of his work in comics, IMO (I'd probably put Sin City after that and then it gets a little more debatable). He created the definitive versions and storylines for those characters and both wrote and drew some of the most memorable comics of all-time in doing so. I don't think there are many serious Miller aficionados who would place the work that Miller only drew (but didn't write) on the same level as the material he had full creative control over. In fact, I think you can easily argue that the best of his work that he wrote, but didn't draw (e.g., Batman: Year One, Elektra: Assassin, Daredevil: Born Again) ranks higher in the pantheon of his work to the books where he only had the artist duties (e.g., Wolverine). 

Edited January 13, 2023 by delekkerste

[delekkerste]

On 1/12/2023 at 6:14 PM, J.Sid said:

Would a great DD vs. Hand Ninjas action page sell for that amount? (150k)
If not, what about a great DD vs. the Punisher?
DD vs. Bullseye?

I think the current pricing structure for Miller's Wolverine Limited Series original art boils down to two main factors:

1. the popularity of Wolverine as a character in Claremont's X-universe - this co-opts a lot of X-fans/collectors who aren't just in it for Miller

2. the much more limited supply of pages versus the Miller DD art that is available. The supply constraints are compounded by the fact that many of the Wolvie pages, including some of the best examples, were colored after-the-fact, which has further constricted the supply of the black & white pages out there

As such, now we're seeing really outsized prices on pages from this series, far beyond what I would consider their importance relative to other work in Miller's oeuvre. That said, I think the very, very best Miller Daredevil pages would blow away these results we've seen on Wolvie pages if they were ever to hit the auction block (which looks pretty doubtful). And, yes, the extremely limited supply of great Miller DD pages with Elektra means that the best of those pages would fetch $150K-up type valuations in the current market, IMO. I don't think that's true for Bullseye (aside from certain key pages from DD #181) or Punisher pages from the run, though.  

Edited January 13, 2023 by delekkerste

[Nexus]

Anyone who chooses Miller Wolverine over Miller DD is a Wolverine fan more than a Miller fan.

[Michael Browning]

On 1/12/2023 at 2:30 PM, inovrmihd said:

This is off topic, and maybe i misheard, but I think the auctioneer, when describing the  X-Men #1 comic, said that the price appreciated more than any other silver age comic since 2019, and if you want it to continue to go up, you have to bid.  So, irrelevant comment, or totally on point?

That’s a question for the Silver Age board.

[Brian Peck]

On 1/12/2023 at 4:58 PM, delekkerste said:

I think the current pricing structure for Miller's Wolverine Limited Series original art boils down to two main factors:

1. the popularity of Wolverine as a character in Claremont's X-universe - this co-opts a lot of fans/collectors who aren't just in it for Miller

2. the much more limited supply of pages versus the Miller DD art that is available. The supply constraints are compounded by the fact that many of the Wolvie pages, including some of the best examples, were colored after-the-fact, which has further constricted the supply of the black & white pages out there

As such, now we're seeing really outsized prices on pages from this series, far beyond what I would consider their importance relative to other work in Miller's oeuvre. That said, I think the very, very best Miller Daredevil pages would blow away these results we've seen on Wolvie pages if they were ever to hit the auction block (which looks pretty doubtful). And, yes, the extremely limited supply of great Miller DD pages with Elektra means that the best of those pages would fetch $150K-up type valuations in the current market, IMO. I don't think that's true for Bullseye (aside from certain key pages from DD #181) or Punisher pages from the run, though.  

And it would come down to the DD issue and who did what in terms of the artwork. While the DD Miller stories are great who drew what on what page can give you a headache figuring out. Plus some people will only buy certain pages ie if Miller just did layouts, mi=ostly Jason or size of the artwork.

[Michael Browning]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:31 PM, Brian Peck said:

And it would come down to the DD issue and who did what in terms of the artwork. While the DD Miller stories are great who drew what on what page can give you a headache figuring out. Plus some people will only buy certain pages ie if Miller just did layouts, mi=ostly Jason or size of the artwork.

I don’t think it even matters who drew how much on the DD pages now, as we’ve seen some all-Janson pages sell very high over the last couple years.

For Miller Daredevil, I do believe it comes down to just being a Miller DD page that sends it so high.

I do believe Wolverine being one of Marvel’s top tier characters and being drawn by Miller in a very memorable scene put this one over the top.

I really don’t think people even care that it was Claremont who wrote the Wolverine limited series and Miller just did pencils. I truly believe what made the #2 page sell for $156,000 is the fact that it’s a fantastic image of Wolverine BY Miller and the series is a classic.