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(attempted) Flip of the Day!
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Started by Lee B.,

2,088 posts in this topic

JC25427N

JC25427N

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Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2023 at 12:52 PM, Xatari said:

Again, I shared my last two personal experiences and sited historical reference points that are verifiable.  

Your last two personal experiences/historical reference points are that that Nick tried to sell the entire first appearance issue of Shuri two times as a whole (and I'm assuming you wanted just the first appearance page) and it didn't end up selling either time. It sounds to me based on what he said during the sales that he really wants to sell the entire issue and would keep the first appearance page anyway if he did break it up. So from an outsider's perspective who doesn't share your personal grievances, it looks like sour grapes, not a pattern of deceitfulness. I don't see someone standing firm on their selling price (no matter how high, if they've a reputation as a legitimate seller then however much profit or value they wish to assign on anything they want to sell is their business) as deceit, and just because his main selling avenue is a youtube show I don't think justifies insinuating that its done for clickbait unless you also insinuate that every online seller with a site who drops pages at (seemingly) outrageous prices are just clickbaiting traffic to their site.

Regardless, I believe he already stated during one of his recent shows where he opened up and previewed the pages that he would be breaking up and selling individual Spider-Man #7 pages just like he did for his recent ASM full issue sale, so it won't be a repeat of the Black Panther sale where he was only interested in parting with it as a whole. 

tl;dr: I don't think its fair to ascribe deceitfulness to everyone who attempts to sell something you want at a price you think is too high, even when they try to sell it twice and hold firm on their price. If I want a page from you that you're selling at $10,000 and I think it's worth $3000, if in 2 years time you're still selling the page at $10,000 I'm not going to accuse of you deceit whether you sell on a facebook/youtube stream, your own site, or CAF classifieds.

Edited by JC25427N
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cloud cloddie

cloud cloddie

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On 5/10/2023 at 9:40 AM, Xatari said:

No accusation made. Shared my personal experience and hope for a different one this time. 

 

On 5/10/2023 at 9:42 AM, JC25427N said:

Whatever word you think is more appropriate then, regardless, the connotations you gave off that Nick might just be hype mongering without any intent of selling pages feels unwarranted

My personal experience is the same. Watched a show a few months back for a piece that showed up at the end with an aspirational price. Didn’t sell, and days later it’s in his CAF gallery with a glowing ‘so happy I get to keep it’. 😒

Couple that with previous CAF posts about ‘grails’ that ended up on the last CAFlive at crazy prices, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of reason to imply what Xatari did, intentionally or not. 

He’s welcome to do whatever he wants with art he owns. As we’re welcome to call out practices we’re clearly observing. 
 

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Xatari

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On 5/10/2023 at 10:03 AM, JC25427N said:

Your last two personal experiences/historical reference points are that that Nick tried to sell the entire first appearance issue of Shuri two times as a whole (and I'm assuming you wanted just the first appearance page) and it didn't end up selling either time. It sounds to me based on what he said during the sales that he really wants to sell the entire issue and would keep the first appearance page anyway if he did break it up. So from an outsider's perspective who doesn't share your personal grievances, it looks like sour grapes, not a pattern of deceitfulness. I don't see someone standing firm on their selling price (no matter how high, if they've a reputation as a legitimate seller then however much profit or value they wish to assign on anything they want to sell is their business) as deceit, and just because his main selling avenue is a youtube show I don't think justifies insinuating that its done for clickbait unless you also insinuate that every online seller with a site who drops pages at (seemingly) outrageous prices are just clickbaiting traffic to their site.

Regardless, I believe he already stated during one of his recent shows where he opened up and previewed the pages that he would be breaking up and selling individual Spider-Man #7 pages just like he did for his recent ASM full issue sale, so it won't be a repeat of the Black Panther sale where he was only interested in parting with it as a whole. 

tl;dr: I don't think its fair to ascribe deceitfulness to everyone who attempts to sell something you want at a price you think is too high, even when they try to sell it twice and hold firm on their price. If I want a page from you that you're selling at $10,000 and I think it's worth $3000, if in 2 years time you're still selling the page at $10,000 I'm not going to accuse of you deceit whether you sell on a facebook/youtube stream, your own site, or CAF classifieds.

Hi, happy to take it offline if you’d like to discuss but just to be clear, I was interested in the book as a complete purchase and made an offer over six figures. No sour grapes other than time spent. I think you’re making a lot of assumptions. 

My point was simply this is being hyped up (“the one you’ve been waiting for” and “the most talked about comic book of the year”), and I hope the intention is to sell and it ends up in a closed transaction.

I appreciate relationships built and deals closed as a result (as I mentioned previously).  I don’t appreciate the feeling of bait and switch which I felt twice previously with my time. 

Reminder, this thread is for flip of the day, which this certainly qualifies given it just sold. 

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JC25427N

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On 5/10/2023 at 2:37 PM, Xatari said:

Hi, happy to take it offline if you’d like to discuss but just to be clear, I was interested in the book as a complete purchase and made an offer over six figures. No sour grapes other than time spent. I think you’re making a lot of assumptions. 

My point was simply this is being hyped up (“the one you’ve been waiting for” and “the most talked about comic book of the year”), and I hope the intention is to sell and it ends up in a closed transaction.

I appreciate relationships built and deals closed as a result (as I mentioned previously).  I don’t appreciate the feeling of bait and switch which I felt twice previously with my time. 

Reminder, this thread is for flip of the day, which this certainly qualifies given it just sold. 

 

On 5/10/2023 at 1:50 PM, cloud cloddie said:

 

Couple that with previous CAF posts about ‘grails’ that ended up on the last CAFlive at crazy prices, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of reason to imply what Xatari did, intentionally or not. 


 

 

I might be remembering wrong and apologies if I am, but my recollection was that many people defended that listing during the last CAF live stating that either A) it was clearly satire, or B) If it's not satire, then a person stating "This is how much it would take for me to let go of this piece of art" is perfectly legitimate. Then I remember this chart being brought up which if my recollections are correct so far, I think it's pretty unfair that the same defense isn't being applied to Nick, or malicious intent is being projected onto Nick for the same action when people didn't project the same back then

personal value -not by Jim Lee, Frank Miller, Jack Kirby, Todd McFarlane, Neal Adams or Barry Blair Comic Art

Anyway I'm willing to drop it now, I'll admit I could be wrong. I don't have anything against or anything significantly towards Nick, I've never bought from him but I regularly watch his show and to me he doesn't come across as the sort of malicious actor that's being insinuated here. I'll defend him this far because I think the insinuations are unfair/unjust based on my experience and limited view of Nick as a person, but if others feel differently then of course they have the right to express that as well.

Also nothing personal against Xatari, Cloud, or anyone else who disagrees with me. I think you're all splendid people, we just seem to disagree or have different views on this point. Feel like that needs to be stated around here where if you reply to someone more than 3 times in a row suddenly everyone thinks you've become mortal enemies. 

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cloud cloddie

cloud cloddie

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On 5/10/2023 at 12:56 PM, JC25427N said:

  

 

 

I might be remembering wrong and apologies if I am, but my recollection was that many people defended that listing during the last CAF live stating that either A) it was clearly satire, or B) If it's not satire, then a person stating "This is how much it would take for me to let go of this piece of art" is perfectly legitimate.

 

Not sure what listing you’re referring to, since he had A LOT of marked up listings in the last CAFlive. 

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Xatari

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Haha. Same.  No hard feelings toward you or Nick. I have had positive interactions with Nick privately but didn’t love my past experiences on the public event side of things. Readers can draw their own conclusions. This was a flip thread and never intended to bash another member of the community outside of sharing personal experience. 

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JC25427N

JC25427N

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On 5/10/2023 at 4:01 PM, cloud cloddie said:

Not sure what listing you’re referring to, since he had A LOT of marked up listings in the last CAFlive. 

Yeah I went back to check I got things a bit mixed up, I was thinking of the reaction to Dinesh's $5M ASM 300 cover listing  lol

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crnbrd

crnbrd

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On 5/10/2023 at 10:08 AM, KirbyCollector said:

Can we have some new characters and new stories please? Why does legacy media insist on squeezing every last drop of blood out of its core IP? It's not drawing in my two teens or any of their friends... I struggle to understand how this strategy by both Disney and Warner Bros builds out a new core comics audience or even retains the existing audience.

From what Ive been told it's the points system and royalties. Everything labeled a derivative character they don't have to pay out on. I remember Liefeld posted something about how his Dove being female was considered derivative. Same thing for Spider-Gwen, she's still just Gwen Stacy. 

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dirtymartini1

dirtymartini1

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Nick with his olive oil voice and guinea charms buying pre sale to cherry pick and resell the "must have it extra pages", Xatari with his constant unsolicited fishing emails without offering a price on art he wants. This is OA life. What can you do but embrace it and enjoy?

Real life is crazy enough. No need to get riled up w perceived slights in a hobby we all love. 

GD.jpg

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brownies8701

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Ouch! 

Detective Comics #746 Story Page 14 sold on Heritage 12/28/2022 for $1,080 (with BP)

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-watkiss-and-steve-mitchell-detective-comics-746-story-page-14-original-art-dc-2000-/a/322252-49261.s?type=wantlistid-1457873!creatorid-cewl!linkclicked-image!emailid-12222022-022242.236PM-4573056-1457873!itemid-322252_57019!wlem

Same page sold on Heritage 5/10/2023 for $372 (with BP) 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/shawn-martinbrough-john-watkiss-and-steve-mitchell-detective-comics-746-story-page-14-ori/a/322319-47154.s?type=DA-DMC-ComicArtFans-ComicArt-322319-05032023

Maybe it was relisted 5 months later b/c buyer didn't pay...hopefully it wasn't an attempted flip :eek:

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GotSuperPowers?

GotSuperPowers?

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On 5/11/2023 at 7:48 AM, brownies8701 said:

Ouch! 

Detective Comics #746 Story Page 14 sold on Heritage 12/28/2022 for $1,080 (with BP)

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-watkiss-and-steve-mitchell-detective-comics-746-story-page-14-original-art-dc-2000-/a/322252-49261.s?type=wantlistid-1457873!creatorid-cewl!linkclicked-image!emailid-12222022-022242.236PM-4573056-1457873!itemid-322252_57019!wlem

Same page sold on Heritage 5/10/2023 for $372 (with BP) 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/shawn-martinbrough-john-watkiss-and-steve-mitchell-detective-comics-746-story-page-14-ori/a/322319-47154.s?type=DA-DMC-ComicArtFans-ComicArt-322319-05032023

Maybe it was relisted 5 months later b/c buyer didn't pay...hopefully it wasn't an attempted flip :eek:

Ouch indeed, but the May price is more in line with what I would have expected from the first listing.  1k was way too much for that page unless I'm missing something.

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KirbyCollector

KirbyCollector

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On 5/11/2023 at 8:03 AM, GotSuperPowers? said:

Ouch indeed, but the May price is more in line with what I would have expected from the first listing.  1k was way too much for that page unless I'm missing something.

Auctions like this are the small cracks starting to show. Have noticed in 2021-2022 a lot of lesser name art in auctions and on YouTube shows going for more money than I expected, as if like entry-level buyers priced out of bigger name artists were grabbing this lower tier art because it was the only "affordable" stuff around. Now that the lower and middle classes have a lot less purchasing power, prices on lower tier art are fading... I've noticed this especially on the YouTube shows, where art they found behind some sofa which would have seen interest in 2021-2022 is now going unsold b/c sellers haven't caught up to the new reality. I'm not saying a crash is imminent, just that prices softening in light of the general economy should not be a surprise to anyone.

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skrilla1212

skrilla1212

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Similar to the above. A really nice Duncan Fegredo Hellboy page.

sold on HA last March for $2,000

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/duncan-fegredo-hellboy-the-wild-hunt-8-story-page-7-original-art-dark-horse-2009-/a/7265-51211.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Archive-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514

sold on HA this week $1170 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/duncan-fegredo-hellboy-the-wild-hunt-8-story-page-7-original-art-dark-horse-2009-/a/322319-47077.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116

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wolvergeek

wolvergeek

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On 5/11/2023 at 7:48 AM, brownies8701 said:

Ouch! 

Detective Comics #746 Story Page 14 sold on Heritage 12/28/2022 for $1,080 (with BP)

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/john-watkiss-and-steve-mitchell-detective-comics-746-story-page-14-original-art-dc-2000-/a/322252-49261.s?type=wantlistid-1457873!creatorid-cewl!linkclicked-image!emailid-12222022-022242.236PM-4573056-1457873!itemid-322252_57019!wlem

Same page sold on Heritage 5/10/2023 for $372 (with BP) 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/story-page/shawn-martinbrough-john-watkiss-and-steve-mitchell-detective-comics-746-story-page-14-ori/a/322319-47154.s?type=DA-DMC-ComicArtFans-ComicArt-322319-05032023

Maybe it was relisted 5 months later b/c buyer didn't pay...hopefully it wasn't an attempted flip :eek:

This could be the case of a buyer backing out and then HA relisting it. Happened to one of my pieces last November. Sold for about $50 less the second time around.

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KirbyCollector

KirbyCollector

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On 5/11/2023 at 4:18 PM, wolvergeek said:

This could be the case of a buyer backing out and then HA relisting it. Happened to one of my pieces last November. Sold for about $50 less the second time around.

HA never loses... someone who backs out isn't allowed to bid anymore unless they pay the winning bid price as a penalty... and HA pockets all of it

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