ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[paqart]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:05 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

The corner separation is NOT normal. No one said it was. A case shouldn't look to be able to be swapped with the old slabs, we never said that it was "normal.

You never proved the corner was separated so no one stuck in that argument long.

The label rippling is not "common" but "can happen", which it is still cause for reholder.

The label on top coming off is "normal in the fact" that it is easy to start a peal and somehow get dislodged, which is cause for a reholder back then as well, although truly most could "live with that!" Not normal though, the 2nd generation like you have there wasused for mostly 16 years and could be looked at as similar to modern newton rings. Some people cared about the label on top, some didn't as the cert is still sealed.

Yes when they made the current generation they bolded the print and color of labels to become more readable. 

Here look at a 1st generation slab, it was worse in the beginning, these 16 year long labels were good enough for everyone at the time, but you're too "good for them?" Having been spoiled by the current generation, I get that, but that all sounds like an over reaction tbh

I just realized why you weren't convinced about the corner. It didn't occur to me there was another way to slide the paper in as I did, but you guys are oviously on top of these things. I slid it through the open corner. You guys were probably thinking I slid it through the normally open sides. It didn't occur to me to try that, and I didn't know there was such a thing as a slab with open sides. However, it went through the corner. The only reason I used a thin strip like that is that happened to be what was sitting on a table nearby. I could have put a full sheet of typing paper in there if I'd felt like it.

Edited April 27 by paqart

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:07 PM, paqart said:

I just realized why you weren't convinced about the corner. It didn't occur to me there was another way to slide the paper in as I did, but you guys are oviously on top of these things. I slid it through the open corner. You guys were probably thinking I slid it through the normally open sides. It didn't occur to me to try that, and I didn't know there was such a has a slab with open sides. However, it went through the corner. The only reason I used a thin strip like that is that happened to be what was sitting on a table nearby. I could have put a full sheet of typing paper in there if I'd felt like it.

I figured it might have been true in that type of miscommunication, benefit of the doubt.

The reason I gave broad answers was due to the thread title.

The new generation may be more "sealed" as you would have put it, but doesn't mean if you drop it and a corner becomes separated, that the same thing couldn't happen. Technically 

With more of it sealed, more would fracture, and it might not look as clean.

Regardless both would be simple reho,ders as stated for reasons in my last couple of posts.

That said and with this thread title, I see or sympathize with why you drew the conclusion. If I seem impatient it is because the Good News was it wasn't anything to do with the thread title, just misconception rather than miscommunication. If that means no more slabs for you, it'll take time, but hopefully we gave enough short but broad details if you come upon more to examine.

 Cheers!

Edited April 27 by ADAMANTIUM

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:13 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Technically 

With more of it sealed, more would fracture, and it might not look as clean.

 

That said and with this thread title, I see or sympathize with why you drew the conclusion. If I seem impatient it is because the Good News was it wasn't anything to do with the thread title, just misconception rather than miscommunication.

If it weren't for this thread, you wouldn't have thought that clean of a break as serious nor malicious, similar to anything else that has flaws but is meant to show wear if tampered with, tamper evident not tamper proof.

Although idk if CGC is shooting for tamper proof nowadays

Edited April 27 by ADAMANTIUM

[paqart]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:05 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

The corner separation is NOT normal. No one said it was. A case shouldn't look to be able to be swapped with the old slabs, we never said that it was "normal.

You never proved the corner was separated so no one stuck in that argument long.

The label rippling is not "common" but "can happen", which it is still cause for reholder.

The label on top coming off is "normal in the fact" that it is easy to start a peal and somehow get dislodged, which is cause for a reholder back then as well, although truly most could "live with that!" Not normal though, the 2nd generation like you have there wasused for mostly 16 years and could be looked at as similar to modern newton rings. Some people cared about the label on top, some didn't as the cert is still sealed.

Yes when they made the current generation they bolded the print and color of labels to become more readable. 

Here look at a 1st generation slab, it was worse in the beginning, these 16 year long labels were good enough for everyone at the time, but you're too "good for them?" Having been spoiled by the current generation, I get that, but that all sounds like an over reaction tbh

These don't bother me. What bugs me is the open corner. As I wrote, the comic could have easily been removed. I was tempted to do it, but changed my mind after reading your warning. I don't have it any more because I sent it in, so I'll send a drawing of what was going on. It was easy to show if I was holding it in my hands, but not when lying on a table.

EDIT: I must have gotten so used to centimeters living in Europe for over a decade that I forgot what inches looked like. I just looked at a measuring tape and see that the gap labeled "1/4"" in the drawing is closer to a full inch.

Edited April 27 by paqart
correction

[paqart]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:25 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

If it weren't for this thread, you wouldn't have thought that clean of a break as serious nor malicious, similar to anything else that has flaws but is meant to show wear if tampered with, tamper evident not tamper proof.

Although idk if CGC is shooting for tamper proof nowadays

That is true. I am fairly sure I would have immediately thought "damaged holder" not "tampered holder, swapped comic." Thanks to this thread, I was hyper alert to any differences between this holder and the ones in my collection, which are all either new, undamaged and at the bottom of my pile, or from another company. The real issues though, were apparent moisture damage that disagreed with the grade on the label. An "8.0 off-white" shouldn't be warped from top to bottom, with pages near the center top fatter (due to moisuture) than the sides of the pages. Also, these pages are visibly yellow on the edges, not white. Maybe they were white inside, but the yellowed edges aren't a good sign.

[paqart]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:13 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

That said and with this thread title, I see or sympathize with why you drew the conclusion. If I seem impatient it is because the Good News was it wasn't anything to do with the thread title, just misconception rather than miscommunication. If that means no more slabs for you, it'll take time, but hopefully we gave enough short but broad details if you come upon more to examine.

 Cheers!

If open corners aren't normal, that is a different story. It sounded to me like you and others were saying they were normal. This is because (I guess) I was conflating people saying that warped labels, etc were normal for "everything you found is normal." No one seemed surprised by the open corner, possibly because it is hard to see, though I thought the slip of paper under the corner illustrated the issue well (and now know better). That helped create the illusion that the comments were all-inclusive.

I'm still going to be wary of these online, but if I see them in person and can handle them to look for this kind of thing, that I can live with.

 

[DC#]

On 4/26/2024 at 8:31 PM, paqart said:

These don't bother me. What bugs me is the open corner. As I wrote, the comic could have easily been removed. I was tempted to do it, but changed my mind after reading your warning. I don't have it any more because I sent it in, so I'll send a drawing of what was going on. It was easy to show if I was holding it in my hands, but not when lying on a table.

EDIT: I must have gotten so used to centimeters living in Europe for over a decade that I forgot what inches looked like. I just looked at a measuring tape and see that the gap labeled "1/4"" in the drawing is closer to a full inch.

Is no one going to say how incredible this illustration is?    Sorry the holder is messed up but huge kudos on your visual communication skills.    

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:26 PM, paqart said:

If open corners aren't normal, that is a different story. It sounded to me like you and others were saying they were normal.

I'm still going to be wary of these online, but if I see them in person and can handle them to look for this kind of thing, that I can live with.

 

I agree that was my over statement, so no worries. I meant the holder looked legit, which was a broad answer, but I mentioned reholder and didn't go into detail of what areas meant "damage" not malicious specifically that needed a reholder.

I mentioned in another post on this page however.

Ink, font, corner design, and case and DESIGN were all legit no malicious behavior 

HOWEVER 

The Popped corner, the warped label, the scratches, and the top label on outside of the case peeling, were all "damages to a legit case" THAT CALLED OR WOULD BE REASON FOR A REHOLDER.

I didn't go into specifics until later which I apologize for.

 

Edited April 27 by ADAMANTIUM

[Buzzetta]

There are quite a few Golden Age slabbed books that have wavy labels due to the bulkier slab.  I have seen that many times over the years.  The slab does not look tampered with in my opinion at all.  It is the nature of the book inside a larger size slab. 

[paqart]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:04 AM, DC# said:

Is no one going to say how incredible this illustration is?    Sorry the holder is messed up but huge kudos on your visual communication skills.    

Thanks. I used to draw comics for a living, in case you didn't know, and still draw them every once in a while: https://www.paqart.com/

[RockMyAmadeus]

[newshane]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:10 AM, Dr. Balls said:

From the land of obscurity: Iomega did this to customers who lost gigabytes of data from their Zip Disks due to 'Click Death' - where the disk failed and all data was lost (at the time, in the late 90's - many people archived data on zip disks due to them holding large amounts of data and less expensive than optical disks).

Thanks for reminding me….

[paqart]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:44 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

It fits, but thanks for the lame gotcha attempt, it was tepidly amusing. I wasn't drawing to scale. There is only so much time to make things like this when there is real work to be done elsewhere. 

Edited April 27 by paqart

[RockMyAmadeus]

[ADAMANTIUM]

So the label is sealed in the mylar with the comic, as the angle alludes too or points out. I asked that earlier, to which no one replied 😂 I guess that wall of text lesson is being learned hahaha 

Edited April 27 by ADAMANTIUM

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Dr. Balls]

RMA not holding back this morning

[newshane]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:36 AM, Dr. Balls said:

RMA not holding back this morning

 

I encourage him to abandon speaking through emoticons and images. BRING BACK THE PROSE! 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:38 AM, newshane said:

 

I encourage him to abandon speaking through emoticons and images. BRING BACK THE PROSE! 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Edited April 27 by RockMyAmadeus